Dumb As A Bag of Hair

[vorlon13]

An omnipotent and omniscient being would necessarily be responsible for the existence of cancer, whether creating it directly or merely allowing it to come into existence. Those two omnis make you responsible for everything.

Not at all, that's just crazy thinking. Because God is omnipotent and omniscient this does not demand He has to do anything about any disease and there is nothing show that He would. The only reason atheist say such is because they do not want God to be real, too bad He is. God is said to have cursed the earth and He did by removing His protection from it and allowing Satan to have a part in human life as humans chose.

GC

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Matthew 10 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.



I read that as Jesus conferring an unlimited and unregulated healing gift upon His disciples. It asserts God in fact does have to do something about diseases.

[Godscreated]

Not at all, that's just crazy thinking. Because God is omnipotent and omniscient this does not demand He has to do anything about any disease and there is nothing show that He would. The only reason atheist say such is because they do not want God to be real, too bad He is. God is said to have cursed the earth and He did by removing His protection from it and allowing Satan to have a part in human life as humans chose.

GC

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 Your ailments are a result of sin period and it could be because of your own, now don't get bent out of shape I said could be. You speak of Christians and Jews as if they have always been and are still today primitive. Well the Egyptians worshiped many different gods and yet they built the pyramids, something architects today say we can't do, especially without modern equipment. There are stones in some of the Middle Eastern buildings so heavy that we have no machines that can move them, Solomon's Temple was considered one of the most beautiful complexes built. man today doesn't even have the talents needed to build the cathedrals of the past. So how is it we are primitive man is losing much knowledge every generation.

GC

I think Christians that believe that believe it mainly because they've been taught to and often keep believing because some of the teachings form a kind of loop. Or for comfort. I don't think Christians and Jews are less intelligent but I do believe studies have shown that some Christians are not as good at lateral thinking.

Could this be that they have found satisfaction in their lives that non Christians can't understand, a satisfaction that doesn't lead to or need to question everything around them especially life questions because they already have the answer that is true.

I think the idea that we all somehow deserve everything just doesn't make sense, especially since we now have a whole lot of scientific understanding as to what causes disease. These teachings came before such progress. People were just trying to come up with an explanation without much verified knowledge.
It's basically "Someone must have angered the gods." I don't believe it's moral to punish people for something that other people did.

Just because we have a better understanding of diseases doesn't necessarily mean we do or do not deserve everything and I believe I made that point in my last post to you. 
I do not believe that there is a teaching that we all deserve all the things that happen to us good or bad. I believe that is more of a reactionary statement made by those who do not try and understand God on a level they need too. You know I could say the same thing about astrophysics, much in this field is guess work, much that is claimed has never been seen, they make this stuff up to explain things they have no idea about, such as comets.
The bold by me above is not necessarily a Christian teaching nor stance, it's more of something you would hear on TV. You are not punished for something others have done, you are or will be punished for your own sin. I know you are referring to Adam and Eve, well you are not being punished for what they did, the cause of the punishment was made possible because of what they did. They disobeyed God, God cursed the creation and allowed Satan to work in the lives of man, thus disease and other nasty things were allowed to exist and we sometimes run head on into them, meaning thing happen and other times God uses them in the lives of people for a purpose. This is a subject that could take a long time to completely explain, something suited better for another thread and small steps taken to allow the subject to develop. But even in another thread things would go off coarse because that's just the way threads work here, to many smart a_ _ to carry on a complete conversation, I'm not referring to you.  

I do think it's harmful and causes unnecessary guilt to teach people that, and many other teachings such as that gay sex is wrong, that even just looking at anyone you aren't married to is wrong and I could go on. But I won't.

I can agree with some of that but not all, such as the gay sex, that isn't natural and I know a man who has come to that conclusion own his own and no longer practices gay sex or even believes he is was born gay.

As for Solomon's Temple, I don't know that we've found that. I would suppose it would be big news. I would have to see evidence that it existed and in the form that the Bible says it did in order to believe that it did.

We haven't because it was totally destroyed, but if you accept the history of the Bible then we can assume such. Why would you need to see it, I'm betting that many things in the past we haven't found you believe existed just because archaeologist say they existed. Even though they will carefully us words such as may, could have, believe, should and ect. eliminating the Bible as good historical record is just a silly thing to do, especially in the light that many things were discovered because the Bible said they existed and then were found by archaeologist.

I'm not sure that we couldn't build pyramids today with modern equipment instead of slave labor, but I don't think anyone would want to. At least not full size.

 You would get strong argument from those in the field of architecture. I've been told on this forum that the Egyptians did not use slave labor to build anything. If it's not built full size then it wouldn't be built. Ancient man was much smarter than they are given credit for, they learned to use simple tools with patience and accuracy, the Khmer dynasties are an example of hydrology in action long before the science of hydrology was established. All in all if a new structure isn't built by hand that is a duplicate of an ancient one then we've failed to build the structure in the keeping with the ancient people. I'm a woodworker and I can tell you that power tools can not equal the accuracy of the hand tools used by 18th and 19th century crafts man, nor the even more accurate hand tools of today. I can build a nice table that will last at least two hundred years with out using a ruler or tape measure and it will be stable and useful as a table should be. Knowledge is more important than the tools, without it we couldn't use the tools no matter how simple they may be.

GC

[Foxaèr]

I can agree with some of that but not all, such as the gay sex, that isn't natural and I know a man who has come to that conclusion own his own and no longer practices gay sex or even believes he is was born gay.

"On his own", I doubt it.   Most likely, he was unduly influenced by ignorant religious silliness.

[Godscreated]

Not at all, that's just crazy thinking. Because God is omnipotent and omniscient this does not demand He has to do anything about any disease and there is nothing show that He would. The only reason atheist say such is because they do not want God to be real, too bad He is. God is said to have cursed the earth and He did by removing His protection from it and allowing Satan to have a part in human life as humans chose.

GC

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 Your ailments are a result of sin period and it could be because of your own, now don't get bent out of shape I said could be. You speak of Christians and Jews as if they have always been and are still today primitive. Well the Egyptians worshiped many different gods and yet they built the pyramids, something architects today say we can't do, especially without modern equipment. There are stones in some of the Middle Eastern buildings so heavy that we have no machines that can move them, Solomon's Temple was considered one of the most beautiful complexes built. man today doesn't even have the talents needed to build the cathedrals of the past. So how is it we are primitive man is losing much knowledge every generation.

GC

Sin, huh? If not IA's sin, then whose "sins" got visited on him? It's a sick religion that adheres to that kind of "thought".

You're assuming that I said all sickness is a punishment and you are wrong in that thought, go back and read what I posted. I do not know that Christians believe your assumption nor does Christianity teach such a thing. There may be individuals that think that way but they are wrong and need to come to a better understanding of the Bible. The reason Christians say sin causes these ailments is because sin allowed them to become a reality in the world, read what I posted to Industrial Atheist above.

There isn't a structure ever built that we can't build in this day and age. Show me where some "architect" made these claims, and I'll show you how he's wrong.

 I've seen many documentaries on the pyramids and many times it was stated the today's architects say we couldn't build them, I've yielded to their expertise, but since you are so much smarter than they are go ahead and argue with them, it's no skin off my teeth. Bet you thought I was referring to some Christian weren't you. The temple the first Khmer dynasty built could never be built by modern man, especially without modern machinery and if it's not built as it was in the past then man has accomplished nothing, machines did.

GC

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Not at all, that's just crazy thinking. Because God is omnipotent and omniscient this does not demand He has to do anything about any disease and there is nothing show that He would. The only reason atheist say such is because they do not want God to be real, too bad He is. God is said to have cursed the earth and He did by removing His protection from it and allowing Satan to have a part in human life as humans chose.

GC

---

Matthew 10 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.



I read that as Jesus conferring an unlimited and unregulated healing gift upon His disciples.  It asserts God in fact does have to do something about diseases.

 That by no means infers that God caused disease. The verse asserts God has power over the diseases of the world. What power do you think Jesus gave to them, a text book on how to treat diseases, no He imparted unto them heavenly power that could only come from God.

GC

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I can agree with some of that but not all, such as the gay sex, that isn't natural and I know a man who has come to that conclusion own his own and no longer practices gay sex or even believes he is was born gay.

"On his own", I doubt it.   Most likely, he was unduly influenced by ignorant religious silliness.

 He had nothing to do with religion during those years, though I'm sure God showed him the error he was making in life.

GC

[Foxaèr]

 He had nothing to do with religion during those years, though I'm sure God showed him the error he was making in life.

GC

I'm sure silliness misguided him.

[Godscreated]

 He had nothing to do with religion during those years, though I'm sure God showed him the error he was making in life.

GC

I'm sure silliness misguided him.

 You say you are sure, yet it was he who was living that life, and you haven't given any type of silliness nor proof he was misguide. A person realizes he has made a mistake in his life and wants to change it because he comes to the realization the life he was living was wrong and you want to step in and say this person doesn't even know what his life is about and should go back living a life that isn't what he wants. Get over yourself.

GC

[Fake Messiah]

I could say the same thing about astrophysics, much in this field is guess work, much that is claimed has never been seen, they make this stuff up to explain things they have no idea about, such as comets.

What do you know, comets are invented.

The bold [Someone must have angered the gods] by me above is not necessarily a Christian teaching nor stance, it's more of something you would hear on TV. You are not punished for something others have done, you are or will be punished for your own sin.

Then you better go and talk to other Christians because they think otherwise, start at Liberty University

I know you are referring to Adam and Eve, well you are not being punished for what they did, the cause of the punishment was made possible because of what they did. They disobeyed God, God cursed the creation and allowed Satan to work in the lives of man, thus disease and other nasty things were allowed to exist and we sometimes run head on into them, meaning thing happen and other times God uses them in the lives of people for a purpose.

Really? What is a purpose of a child dying of leukemia? Or one thousand children under the age of 5 that die every hour every day in excruciating pain?

This is a subject that could take a long time to completely explain, something suited better for another thread

LOL! This is a thread about this topic!

I'm betting that many things in the past we haven't found you believe existed just because archaeologist say they existed

Actually no.

eliminating the Bible as good historical record is just a silly thing to do, especially in the light that many things were discovered because the Bible said they existed and then were found by archaeologist.

Many things?

[vorlon13]

Why would God be using arrows (so to speak) from Satan's quiver ?

20 The Lord will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a] 21 The Lord will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The Lord will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.

[The Grand Nudger]

Why would God be using arrows (so to speak) from Satan's quiver ?

Because he has a low count.

[vorlon13]

The boils of Egypt sounds pretty scary, and the itch from which you cannot be cured, oh my goodness !!! And realize, there is no note to the effect that even Jesus can fix that one.

[shudder]