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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 7:24 am
(This post was last modified: May 3, 2018 at 7:33 am by John V.)
(May 2, 2018 at 3:11 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (May 2, 2018 at 3:11 pm)Whateverist Wrote: But the mutations are essentially random (though truly random is hard to find). It is the selection process which is not random.
Right, and the changes in populations over time relies on this non-random selection process.
Except for when the changes aren't random. Again, drift isn't random. Consider vitamin C synthesis, or rather the lack thereof in certain species, including us.
Looking further into the numbers in OP regarding people who don't think there a scientific consensus:
- in the creationists, about 50% don't think there's consensus
- in the evolutionists, about 25% don't think there's a consensus.
So, there's significant ignorance (if that explanation is correct) among the evolution believers as well.
The concise definition of evolution given from qualified sources has been rejected by evolutionists here.
That concise definition would be agreed upon by most creationists anyway.
We can't come up with a replacement definition that's concise and accurate.
It's really not surprising that there's a discrepancy.
Pew is usually pretty good, but in this case I don't think they understood the issues well enough to ask the right questions.
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 8:54 am
(May 3, 2018 at 7:24 am)alpha male Wrote: - in the evolutionists, about 25% don't think there's a consensus.
So, there's significant ignorance (if that explanation is correct) among the evolution believers as well.
Yes there is some ignorance about evolution even among people who acknowledge it. Unfortunately if someone supports evolution does not mean that he or she understands it well. He/she understands it to some degree, to what they were thought in school, but haven't read more about it.
And here lies the reason why
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 8:57 am
Yeah, the public's belief about a scientific consensus doesn't change the fact of the actual scientific consensus. Even highly educated non-scientists (like surgeons or lawyers or dentists) can get shit pretty wrong -> see Ben Carson.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 9:08 am
(This post was last modified: May 3, 2018 at 9:10 am by Amarok.)
Just because you ACCEPT something (Because it's an indisputable fact ) Does not mean ones knowledgeable about it. And there is zero doubt in mainstream science that evolution occurs . So you attempts a muddying the waters to pretend your absurd creationist bullshit is a valid or equal is just that . And there is no such thing as an evolutionist there are those who accept the scientific reality and those who ignorantly or willfully deny it .
(May 3, 2018 at 8:57 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yeah, the public's belief about a scientific consensus doesn't change the fact of the actual scientific consensus. Even highly educated non-scientists (like surgeons or lawyers or dentists) can get shit pretty wrong -> see Ben Carson. Indeed scientific consensus is not always consistent with public consensus. Yet another thing creationists try and take advantage of for propaganda .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 9:38 am
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 9:41 am
(May 3, 2018 at 8:57 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yeah, the public's belief about a scientific consensus doesn't change the fact of the actual scientific consensus.
No, it doesn't. Yet, that's the topic of the thread.
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 9:45 am
(May 2, 2018 at 11:03 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If only, huh? The cynical flexibility of true believers allows them to utilize technology even when they deny the reality and efficacy of the underlying mechanism. They might not believe in the demonic forgery of physics or the materialist lie of genetics...but they'll launch the missile with a biological warhead all the same.
You know..I can't really get worked up worrying about war. I'm less and less concerned with the possibility of the use of nuclear weapons. The thought of designer bioweapons..though, terrifies me*. It's one of my many tics. While I doubt that these will ever be cooked up by the real nutters...they are the people I would expect to use them. Apocalyptic weapons in the hands of an apocalyptic death cult, the fear is real.
*unless we come up with them first, innoculate ourselves against them...and then weaponize our entire populace as latent hosts while selling the rest of the world "treatment" - then I'm all for it...Now Pay Me!
The true believers don't have to think. They'll just pay someone to develop their bioweapons for them.
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 9:51 am
(This post was last modified: May 3, 2018 at 9:52 am by FatAndFaithless.)
(May 3, 2018 at 9:41 am)alpha male Wrote: (May 3, 2018 at 8:57 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yeah, the public's belief about a scientific consensus doesn't change the fact of the actual scientific consensus.
No, it doesn't. Yet, that's the topic of the thread.
Sure, which is why we've been talking about ways to make evolution more understandable. But even those that do not accept evolution MUST acknowledge that there is an overwhelming scientific consensus on the topic, and that painting the issue as a 'controversy' in science or listing of 50 PhDs that reject evolution is laughably dishonest.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 10:06 am
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Creationism and Ignorance
May 3, 2018 at 10:14 am
(May 3, 2018 at 9:51 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: (May 3, 2018 at 9:41 am)alpha male Wrote: No, it doesn't. Yet, that's the topic of the thread.
Sure, which is why we've been talking about ways to make evolution more understandable. But even those that do not accept evolution MUST acknowledge that there is an overwhelming scientific consensus on the topic, and that painting the issue as a 'controversy' in science or listing of 50 PhDs that reject evolution is laughably dishonest.
*my bold*
Contradicted by the facts sadly, but not because there isn't sufficient reason to accept it. For those who don't accept it, reason just isn't fully engaged.
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