Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread

[ignoramus]

It seems like they've become slaves to their own delusion.
Their indoctrination has taken hold so strongly that they're barely sane ...
Surely there's professional help for that...

There's a lot more wacko theists than there are atheists here per capita.

[I_am_not_mafia]

It seems like they've become slaves to their own delusion.
Their indoctrination has taken hold so strongly that they're barely sane ...
Surely there's professional help for that...

Maybe that's why they come here?

Some kind of instinct. Memory of what they used to be. It was an important part of their lives.

[John V]

I don't know about anyone else, but if any of our current Christian theists leave the site, I will miss them.

Unfortunately, vorlon is going out of his way to offend Christians, but since he's a staff member, I can't put him on ignore. Doubt I'll be around much longer.

[brewer]

I don't know about anyone else, but if any of our current Christian theists leave the site, I will miss them.

Unfortunately, vorlon is going out of his way to offend Christians, but since he's a staff member, I can't put him on ignore. Doubt I'll be around much longer.

Is there a point to repeatedly telling us this?

[John V]

Unfortunately, vorlon is going out of his way to offend Christians, but since he's a staff member, I can't put him on ignore. Doubt I'll be around much longer.

Is there a point to repeatedly telling us this?

The point in the above post was that, if people miss Christian posters, it might be a good idea for those who want to offend Christians not to be staff members. Wasn't that pretty obvious?

[Edwardo Piet]

That's always on my mind as well. But I also don't think that it should excuse him from the animosity he gets. I've seen people on other forums who started off as complete jerks and then turn their life around and become genuinely nice people. That won't happen if people excuse the behaviour and let it pass unchallenged. And if it is the way he is wired, then he needs to learn to adapt.

I do not think punishment is a good way to motivate people.

Would you say that it depends largely on the punishment?

What about the threat of punishment? Would you say that that motivates people?

---

My suspicion is that we probably agree on this matter.... but I am not sure what the point you are making here is, Mathilda. Can you perhaps elaborate? If that's not too much trouble. I don't mean to be obtuse. I promise it's unintentionally obtuse.

OK well take me. I used to be a troll.

Back in 1994 when I first got to university and gained access to news groups. First thing I did was troll the local news group. I was young, low self esteem, used to being an outcast and all I knew was to be ignored all the time I wasn't provoking a reaction. Whatever, it doesn't matter. I became unpopular but it was a learning experience. Three years later at the end of my degree, the news group started meeting up in person (it was local to the university). But also by that time I had grown as a person. They awarded me 'Best poster'. That wouldn't have happened if people had excused my actions and there had been no consequences to them. Doing that would have denied me a chance to become a better person.

So while it's good to understand where others are coming from. This shouldn't stop anyone from holding them to account. Doing so does nobody any favours. If Neo's posting behaviour on here makes him extremely unpopular then that's what he has to deal with.

Yes. How is that not punishment though?

Or do you mean it's not retributivist punishment it's consequentialist punishment? If so I agree. In other words... it's not about punishing people because they deserve it.

Thank you for your post I enjoyed it a lot.

[Drich]

https://atheistforums.org/thread-54756-p...pid1748352

Drich said:

I was in search of true neutral ground a place where if I played by the rules I would get my voice heard. This by far is the only place I've found that will allow a Christian to "win"/Beat the teeth out of an atheist whether he be noob or established member. Just so long as site rules are not broken.

He got utterly destroyed when he brought his odious views to TTA. He was given a free voice. Nor do I think he's ever 'won' a debate on AF.

Are you kidding?

I was bann in 2016 abruptly because of something I said in 2008. The morons on that web site could not find cause to ban me for anything current, in fact I remember I was rightfully having my way with a few of the heavy hitters over there including you and next time I signed on I was just got a screen that I was bann, no reason given. I had to sneak on as a guest to find out why I was kicked off. even a few of your members over there spoke out against how badly the mods handled that one. You are were impotently being forced feed and you only recourse was to go back to 20012 or 2008 or when ever I was originally ban, and if you honestly looked at why I was ban then it was for the same thing. You had no way to control me or protect your heavy hitters pride, it was all at my digression because i did indeed follow the rules and had sound theological arguments.

[Edwardo Piet]

But is it rude for people not on the spectrum to use their understanding of what that means gained from interactions with people who were as well as from what we've managed to learn about it to try to understand someone's actions?  Neo's actions just struck me as empathically tone deaf.  Not every person on the spectrum is that way, but many have to work harder to gain that capacity or else find work-arounds for it.  

I find Neo's conduct reprehensible and I was fishing around for excusing conditions because I have liked interacting with him before.  So I was just brainstorming ways in which Neo's behavior could have to do with how he experiences the world.  

Obviously it would have been better not to go there at all.  But I don't think that is really analogous to calling someone the spectrum equivalent of a "something-tard".  Maybe I'm just not getting it.

I think you were genuine in trying to come up with a reason for why neo is the way he is. I just think that Ham took it as you were saying something against people on the spectrum. I don't think Ham understood the point of your post.

No I understand his point I'm just saying it can't have anything to do with being on the spectrum.

I accept all of his post apart from the part about 'being on the spectrum'. That was the part I found ignorant and took issue with.

I didn't respond to the rest because I agreed with it all.

I even clarified this more than once afterwards.

It could be due to being on the psychopathic spectrum but treating people like objects and being an unfeeling cunt has nothing to do with 'being on the [autistic] spectrum'... that's all I was saying.

The idea that I didn't understand his point lol

It's only like when Min responded to my autism thread to say effectively "Well you seem normal to me, Ham" and I obviously understood that he was being nice to me and meant we well but I was more interested in taking offence because I tend to ignore stuff I agree with as it doesn't tend to lead to further discussion it just leads to additional kudos

[Silver]

Are you kidding?

I was bann in 2016 abruptly because of something I said in 2008. The morons on that web site could not find cause to ban me for anything current, in fact I remember I was rightfully having my way with a few of the heavy hitters over there including you and next time I signed on I was just got a screen that I was bann, no reason given. I had to sneak on as a guest to find out why I was kicked off. even a few of your members over there spoke out against how badly the mods handled that one. You are were impotently being forced feed and you only recourse was to go back to 20012 or 2008 or when ever I was originally ban, and if you honestly looked at why I was ban then it was for the same thing. You had no way to control me or protect your heavy hitters pride, it was all at my digression because i did indeed follow the rules and had sound theological arguments.

I've never had major issues with this forum, but even I agree with your assessment of TTA. I was banned from there on bogus charges. Eventually, I got around to creating a new account that they still haven't associated with me, but I no longer post over there. TTA has seriously gone downhill.

[Drich]

Rik's one of us.
He's done more for atheism's cause than anyone else could...

I don't think he realizes it though. Lolz. 

As for what I think of the debate and the posts within? 

CL: Joined here three months after I did. She's been a wonderful friend, even when we engage in back and forth posts where I strongly disagree with her opinions. Her thread prompting the birth of the Christian-only debate is a prime example of how she accepts my thoughts without taking it very personally. I love her dearly and as far as my RL friends go - I consider her to be in my small circle of people I trust.

She knows where I stood on having a section just for theists, as did everyone. Still - neither of us resorted to name calling each other. I believe there's a good reason for that. It is because CL never says a harsh word about anyone on here, regardless of who it is. Opinions about faith and beliefs run the gamut on here and CL has dealt with her share of being bullied (for lack of a better word). There are times she's wanted to leave. I convinced her to stay. Truth be told, we need her here. She's a great presence on this site. We've both learned from each other, I think. 

Given her viewpoints and tolerance with certain subjects, I'm hesitant to regard her as Catholic anymore. I can't even regard her as Episcopalian because her some of her views are far too progressive for either religion. And there's nothing wrong with that. I feel that she has a better understanding of the world and the way it is, because she is open to listening to others' thoughts on hotly contested topics. She also stands her ground when she feels she needs to.  This is why I feel she's a good influence on the forum. She listens and then she gives her thoughts. All without being brutal or calling names or being insulting.  

GC: He's a mixed bag for me, tbh. On the one hand, he's been incredibly supportive of me and my journey of being a non-smoker (ten months now smoke free). On many of the off topic threads he contributes to, he comes across as an average guy and for the most part, only brings religion into threads in the religion sections of the forum. He too, is another decent contributor but on the other hand, I feel that perhaps debating with him would work better if the preaching was left out of his posts. That's just my opinion, of course, but we're being honest and that's how I feel. 

I didn't join AF to be preached to. If I wanted that, I would have gone to a religious forum.

Alpha Male: As harsh as some of it was, I appreciate the honesty in his post. I miss him in Mafia. Religion aside - he's a really good Mafia player and I for that, I wish he was around more. Both him and CL have never, to my knowledge, brought religion into the Mafia games. I appreciate that because 99% of that game is mentally messing with everyone else and it can get really emotionally intense at times. 

He said this: 

So, on reflection, why am I here?

My presence here is nothing more than a bad habit.

It's a shame you think this way. When someone gets to know you through Mafia, you're not the same person that I see posting elsewhere on the forums. 

Prov. 26-11
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.

Unless I see a convincing argument to the contrary, I'm going to leave the site at the conclusion of this discussion.

Personally, once we can cut through all of the mud-slinging and the insults - I think you make good contributions here, even if others are in disagreement with that. We can all learn something from each other, as someone else said. If I remember correctly, I think you're the one with five children. I have four myself. Perhaps we could trade parenting stories sometime. I'd like to find common ground with the theists here. Religion isn't necessary for that because there are so many other things we can learn about each other. I'm not going to convince you to stick around, as you are free to go, but I think this forum would be losing a good person from the Religious Team that's here. So, don't go. 

 @CL: There are plenty of Christian sites where you can make online friends, and those sites would be better for you.

I disagree with the undertone of saying that she can't make friends here. Of course she could make them elsewhere on the WWW. But I would never have known her if she hadn't ventured in here. She's been a wonderful friend to many of us here. 

Drich: I can't go there. I'm not ready to be forgiving as there's been a lot of fire between us on a lot of things. I won't apologize for that either. So I'm just going to leave it at that because I just can't find it in myself to say nice things at the moment. 

A Theist: I have come to personally know A Theist through a series of PM's in the first part of this year, I believe. He's also been one of the theists here that I've come to defend. Not that he needs it. But along with Deb, I feel he's a valuable contributor here. It's those two that I have a warm spot in my heart for. Believe it or not, the member's photo thread can be looked at as an opportunity to see the human side of those members we would not otherwise give a second glance to. I for one, look forward to seeing all of the wonderful hats he creates and I love teasing him for not smiling in his pictures. If anyone has the privilege of getting to know him "behind the scenes", he's really a nice, sweet person. 

So because of what I consider to be a friendship with AT, like CL, I tend to shy away from many religious threads where they are active because honestly, religion and politics are two of the topics I tend to avoid discussing with close friends unless they happen to share my views. It's a tightrope I don't have an interest in walking on because I value my friendships more than our differing of opinion on those topics. 

That said, I'm glad he posted his thoughts in the Christian only debate thread. That raw honesty gave me a chance to learn more about him than what I had previously known.

We don't have to be friend to speak to one another. If you can find your way to determine I am sincere and or honest in what I say, then perhaps I can be a rare resource that will tell you like it is rather than give you the lip service western culture demands. In essence once your done with everyone elses bs come to me for the way it is.