Posts: 43162
Threads: 720
Joined: September 21, 2008
Reputation:
133
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 1:06 pm
(May 25, 2018 at 12:53 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (May 25, 2018 at 11:54 am)Edwardo Piet Wrote: What sense of why are you using here?
If your 'why' speaks of ultimate purpose then you are starting from the presupposition that there is an ultimate purpose at all. Before you can ask "What is the ultimate purpose?" you have to ask "Is there an ultimate purpose?" and perhaps the answer to that is "no". Again, depends what you mean by 'ultimate purpose'.
That's the reason for the question. It demands a yes or no answer. Either is acceptable but can it be accepted? Some ideas have consequences. YMMV.
The question is useless unless first the definition of meaning is specified.
And, no, the why question doesn't and cannot demand a yes or no answer as it's an open question rather than a closed one. The question is loaded as it presupposes that there is a why in the first place. "Is there a purpose?" is a different question to "What is the purpose?".
And you can't even justifiably answer with "Yes" or "No" until you first interpret what is meant by "purpose" or "ultimate".
If you are to answer "Yes" to "Is there an ultimate purpose to the universe?" you then have to say what you mean and how you interpreted the question. Otherwise we're just talking past each other. If you think that, yes, there is an ultimate purpose, then what do you mean?
Of course, it's more obvious from a theist perspective because purpose is simply "Whatever God says it is". But that doesn't at all imply that it's a choice between a godly purpose or no purpose at all... as that's a false dilemma. It depends what you mean by "purpose", it depends what you mean by "ultimate", it depends what you mean by "why", it depends what you mean by "meaning".
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation:
14
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 1:06 pm
(May 25, 2018 at 11:50 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: @Steve:
Via the human sciences, I can understand the why's and wherefore's of my being in a way that is tangible, palpable, direct, and definitive. Whereas theists by taking their cues from superstitious primitives spend all their lives trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. By the way, I've still yet to see your response to my post on the nature of God and any values derived thereof. Your response would be appreciated, if you have the time, here.
Jorm--I have had it bookmarked since you wrote it. I even copied it into Evernote to make notes. I will try to get to it soon.
Posts: 19644
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
92
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 2:52 pm
(May 25, 2018 at 9:29 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. Relational
2. Rational
3. Moral agents
4. Capable of complex emotions
5. Appreciative of aesthetics
Under a godless worldview, these things are accidental properties of humans and it makes no sense to ask "why this. Under a Christian worldview, these things are a result of being made in the image of God.
Under my point of view, you (and all believers) are subjectively attributing those things to the notion of a god.
Moreover, due to the accident of the place of your birth, you attribute it to a particular god.
Posts: 67178
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 2:54 pm
(This post was last modified: May 25, 2018 at 2:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If it all came from vishnu it would be woooorthlessssssssssssssssssss....... Doubleplus un-good.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 3:05 pm
(May 25, 2018 at 2:52 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Moreover, due to the accident of the place of your birth, you attribute it to a particular god.
Someone else's religion proposing a different answer does not mean that neither religion is true.
Your engaged in a logical fallacy. If I say there is a new car behind door#1 and someone else says it's behind door#2 that doesn't mean there cannot be a car behind either.
<insert profound quote here>
Posts: 67178
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 3:07 pm
Consider my car behind door number two. What;s the problem?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 32942
Threads: 1412
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 3:10 pm
(May 25, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Someone else's religion proposing a different answer does not mean that neither religion is true.
Your engaged in a logical fallacy. If I say there is a new car behind door#1 and someone else says it's behind door#2 that doesn't mean there cannot be a car behind either.
Yes, it does.
Posts: 67178
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 3:12 pm
It was a slip, Kit, he used the language of monism while invoking some problem that could only be effected by a plurality of equal views.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 19644
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
92
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 3:25 pm
(May 25, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (May 25, 2018 at 2:52 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Moreover, due to the accident of the place of your birth, you attribute it to a particular god.
Someone else's religion proposing a different answer does not mean that neither religion is true.
Your engaged in a logical fallacy. If I say there is a new car behind door#1 and someone else says it's behind door#2 that doesn't mean there cannot be a car behind either.
True, true.
But how to discern which religion is true, if any?
It doesn't invalidate that most people's belief in their own religion is a product of the location of birth.
Posts: 67178
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread
May 25, 2018 at 3:28 pm
(This post was last modified: May 25, 2018 at 3:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 25, 2018 at 3:25 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (May 25, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Someone else's religion proposing a different answer does not mean that neither religion is true.
Your engaged in a logical fallacy. If I say there is a new car behind door#1 and someone else says it's behind door#2 that doesn't mean there cannot be a car behind either.
True, true.
But how to discern which religion is true, if any?
It doesn't invalidate that most people's belief in their own religion is a product of the location of birth.
No need for you to work that out. It;s blissfully easy to accept that every door has this make and model of car behind it. This would be equally true if one of the cars had a god behind them, all of the cars had a god behind them, or none of the cars had a god behind them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
|
