Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 5:50 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is there free will in heaven?
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 6:27 am)lucent Wrote: Abortions are not Gods work. If you don't want to engage and instead are only interested in making your little statements, that's up to you. Abortions are mans work, which God allows because of free will.
God is the universes biggest abortioner, given the number of miscarriages worldwide every day, despite the innocent suffering of the mother to be. According to theology he decides to let them happen, even though the free will of the mother-to-be would be to go through with the pregnancy.

Of course you could construct a logical argument which excused god from the problem of evil and innocent suffering, but can you solve the problem inductively as well as deductively and still remain morally serious? What is more likely that there is no god and these events are tragic and part of our natural world, or that god doesn't prevent innocent suffering becuase he moves in mysterious ways /wants to bring the most people to his side and suffering is a way to achieve/we can't know his mind/its his masterplan [insert here phrase you feel most comfortable with]
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 6:45 am)Zen Badger Wrote:
(October 28, 2011 at 6:27 am)lucent Wrote: Let's put it this way. If someone goes to stab you, God could cause that knife to deflect off your chest. He could turn it into a banana. However, if He did that, free will would not exist. So nothing is happening outside His control, but He permits His creatures to act in ways that defy His authority.

So what you said earlier about no-one dying until god decides they should is not true then?

Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen..allowing it obviously means God decided it should happen. I am not sure how many different ways I can tell you the same thing.
(October 28, 2011 at 6:47 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: God is the universes biggest abortioner, given the number of miscarriages worldwide every day, despite the innocent suffering of the mother to be. According to theology he decides to let them happen, even though the free will of the mother-to-be would be to go through with the pregnancy.

So what you're saying is that God should prevent all suffering. Which means that He should prevent us from any action that might cause another suffering, which means we are nothing more than robots forced to do Gods will.

(October 28, 2011 at 6:47 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Of course you could construct a logical argument which excused god from the problem of evil and innocent suffering, but can you solve the problem inductively as well as deductively and still remain morally serious? What is more likely that there is no god and these events are tragic and part of our natural world, or that god doesn't prevent innocent suffering becuase he moves in mysterious ways /wants to bring the most people to his side and suffering is a way to achieve/we can't know his mind/its his masterplan [insert here phrase you feel most comfortable with]

The problem of evil is solved by the fact that God allows His creatures free will, because creatures that are significantly free can have meaningful relationships with God. Creatures that are not significantly free are forced into doing Gods will. The former is preferable to the latter.
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 6:55 am)lucent Wrote: Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen..allowing it obviously means God decided it should happen. I am not sure how many different ways I can tell you the same thing

So god decides that abortions should happen then?
[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 7:05 am)Zen Badger Wrote:
(October 28, 2011 at 6:55 am)lucent Wrote: Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen..allowing it obviously means God decided it should happen. I am not sure how many different ways I can tell you the same thing

So god decides that abortions should happen then?

That He allows them to happen doesn't mean He wants them to happen. It only means that He allows for the free will decisions of the people involved in making them happen.

Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 7:09 am)lucent Wrote:
(October 28, 2011 at 7:05 am)Zen Badger Wrote:
(October 28, 2011 at 6:55 am)lucent Wrote: Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen..allowing it obviously means God decided it should happen. I am not sure how many different ways I can tell you the same thing

So god decides that abortions should happen then?

That He allows them to happen doesn't mean He wants them to happen. It only means that He allows for the free will decisions of the people involved in making them happen.

Really?? But you state quite emphatically that NOTHING happens unless your deity says so..... You are very confusing mate Confused Fall
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
Christian thought process:
-When something good happens: goddidit
-When something bad happens: Its god's plan

tut tut!
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
How far off the OP this is, I can't even find my last post in this thread. Perhaps I'm just too busy to keep up anymore. I thought we were discussing free will and heaven?

My thought process:
-When something good happens: something good happens
-When something bad happens: something bad happens

That's kind of how a causal universe system works right. cause -> effect --> cause ad nauseum.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
Yeah lucent did you answer that? what changes in heaven do we still have free will or are we "mindless robots"?
If I die and god is real, im so screwed.
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 7:26 am)tackattack Wrote: How far off the OP this is, I can't even find my last post in this thread. Perhaps I'm just too busy to keep up anymore. I thought we were discussing free will and heaven?

My thought process:
-When something good happens: something good happens
-When something bad happens: something bad happens

That's kind of how a causal universe system works right. cause -> effect --> cause ad nauseum.

Mighty Tack!! How are ya mate?? Angel Cloud

Yeah basically your summation gets my vote to...others have some rather exotic ideas??
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Reply
RE: Is there free will in heaven?
(October 28, 2011 at 7:09 am)lucent Wrote:
(October 28, 2011 at 7:05 am)Zen Badger Wrote:
(October 28, 2011 at 6:55 am)lucent Wrote: Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen..allowing it obviously means God decided it should happen. I am not sure how many different ways I can tell you the same thing

So god decides that abortions should happen then?

That He allows them to happen doesn't mean He wants them to happen. It only means that He allows for the free will decisions of the people involved in making them happen.

No,no,no, you have specifically stated that nothing happens unless god decides it should happen.
Now you're saying that things happen even though god doesn't want them to.

Two completely contradictory statements.

I'm coming to the conclusion you don't know what you mean.
[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Is there free will in Heaven? zwanzig 54 4259 April 12, 2021 at 1:35 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Eternity in Heaven - Scary? JairCrawford 47 5382 July 26, 2018 at 2:43 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Pope Francis -- dogs go to Heaven! Jehanne 34 5443 October 19, 2017 at 3:46 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  There is a difference between salvation, and the rewards of Heaven Drich 45 13553 July 31, 2017 at 9:27 am
Last Post: Drich
  Why do Christians want to go to Heaven? Fake Messiah 52 18922 June 28, 2017 at 9:29 am
Last Post: Astonished
  "heaven" meme on facebook drfuzzy 34 7682 May 2, 2016 at 4:44 am
Last Post: GUBU
  Are there animals in heaven? Mermaid 53 8212 November 7, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Last Post: Thumpalumpacus
  My thoughts on heaven dyresand 24 7106 November 3, 2015 at 5:57 pm
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  Bible way to Heaven sinnerdaniel94 362 51625 October 14, 2015 at 3:41 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Heaven is full of tapeworms Brakeman 15 4504 August 13, 2015 at 10:23 am
Last Post: orangebox21



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)