assisted suicide vs suicide prevention

[Amarok]

Yet more proof Mystic should be kept away from mental hospitals

[Brian37]

It would depend on what drugs or therapy you'd already tried and what was or wasn't successful. I'm still not sure how stigma helped you. What stopped me before I ever got close was thinking about how much it would physically hurt and the likely result of having more physical or mental issues upon surviving failure. Also the people who would be hurt if I succeeded. I'm fortunate that I never got anywhere near getting past the point of being able to think about consequences.

I won't lie, the thought of waking up strapped down wasn't appealing either. But that's not really stigma.

So, what do you mean when you say stigma, and how did it help you? To me stigma is basically an unfair judgement, usually concerning character, about somebody who belongs to a marginalized group.

I can't imagine how feeling like some kind of freak gets you farther from killing yourself.

I am human foremost, and all the shame non-mentally ill person would feel at the idea of it, I feel I should do....

In fact, I know the nature of my madness in particular better then anyone else but God and his witnesses/guides that are doors of light out the darkness.

I don't need people to imagine guilt for themselves if they think of the idea, but make excuses for me.   I want people to say, if weak gain strength, if lost, then find yourself, if confused, the seek clarity, if sad then seek happiness, if disappointed then seek achievement, etc...

I don't want people being confused by a label and wondering what kind of creature I am. I want them to look at me with the same human eyes they look at themselves.

If this makes me judgemental to people with my illness that so be it.

Nobody should guilt or shame you, if someone is doing that, they are fucking assholes.

Weak is when you are in denial that you need help, strength is admitting the problem and seeking support. And another thing, NO HUMAN, even those with out mental illness, ever go through their entire lives happy every second/day/hour/year of their lives. Every human has ups and downs.

[Mystic]

Brian, no human is not mentally ill except a few with all definitions of mental illness.

But that is a digression. We who need medications are just simply humans who need medications.

Sure we may need help to overcome and heal, but we are still, humans capable of evil and sin, and our states are to be judged just like you would judge any state of any person.

This includes extreme despair and I Don't need your excuses.

[Amarok]

Yup more proof you should be kept anyway from anyone suicidal .

[Mystic]

What difference does it do if its our fault or not?

Is it that we don't need meds?

Is it that we should not be treated with compassion?

Is it that we are going to be judged more evil than most society?

I don't understand.

What is so wrong about me taking responsibility, when I see it all, the past, as it happened, and I know it was preventable on so many steps.

[The Industrial Atheist]

It would depend on what drugs or therapy you'd already tried and what was or wasn't successful. I'm still not sure how stigma helped you. What stopped me before I ever got close was thinking about how much it would physically hurt and the likely result of having more physical or mental issues upon surviving failure. Also the people who would be hurt if I succeeded. I'm fortunate that I never got anywhere near getting past the point of being able to think about consequences.

I won't lie, the thought of waking up strapped down wasn't appealing either. But that's not really stigma.

So, what do you mean when you say stigma, and how did it help you? To me stigma is basically an unfair judgement, usually concerning character, about somebody who belongs to a marginalized group.

I can't imagine how feeling like some kind of freak gets you farther from killing yourself.

I am human foremost, and all the shame non-mentally ill person would feel at the idea of it, I feel I should do....

In fact, I know the nature of my madness in particular better then anyone else but God and his witnesses/guides that are doors of light out the darkness.

I don't need people to imagine guilt for themselves if they think of the idea, but make excuses for me.   I want people to say, if weak gain strength, if lost, then find yourself, if confused, the seek clarity, if sad then seek happiness, if disappointed then seek achievement, etc...

I don't want people being confused by a label and wondering what kind of creature I am. I want them to look at me with the same human eyes they look at themselves.

If this makes me judgemental to people with my illness then so be it.

It's much easier to tell someone to seek strength, or clarity or whatever, then to actually help them do it. That's what treatment is for.

If you say shame helped you, I don't know, if you say so I guess?

I think treatment would've help a whole lot more.

For the record, I have never thought you're a bad guy or anything. I'm sure I disagree with you on a lot of things, and most of those things I feel likely are based on religious belief. But I believed some things that I now think are pretty odious moral opinions. 

I think you want to do good, and I'm not always sure that's something you can say about everybody.

[Catholic_Lady]

So I know there are quite a few people here who have said that they support assisted suicide for any person who no longer wants to live, so long as they are an adult. The rationale is, a person has the right to end their life for any reason if they so choose, and there should therefore be a safe and painless options for them to do so. 

For those people, my question is, do you feel then that it is not appropriate to call 911 when a friend tells you they will kill themselves, since you are preventing them from doing something they have a right to do? Do you think we should lay off the whole suicide prevention thing, and just let people choose for themselves, and not make suicide into this thing we should prevent people from doing?

Did you start this thread as a result of a conversation with Hammy?

No, I started it because I was thinking about a thread from like a year ago where people were talking about how assisted suicide should be accessible to anyone.

[Amarok]

And under the right conditions it should be

[Mystic]

I am human foremost, and all the shame non-mentally ill person would feel at the idea of it, I feel I should do....

In fact, I know the nature of my madness in particular better then anyone else but God and his witnesses/guides that are doors of light out the darkness.

I don't need people to imagine guilt for themselves if they think of the idea, but make excuses for me.   I want people to say, if weak gain strength, if lost, then find yourself, if confused, the seek clarity, if sad then seek happiness, if disappointed then seek achievement, etc...

I don't want people being confused by a label and wondering what kind of creature I am. I want them to look at me with the same human eyes they look at themselves.

If this makes me judgemental to people with my illness then so be it.

It's much easier to tell someone to seek strength, or clarity or whatever, then to actually help them do it. That's what treatment is for.

If you say shame helped you, I don't know, if you say so I guess?

I think treatment would've help a whole lot more.

For the record, I have never thought you're a bad guy or anything. I'm sure I disagree with you on a lot of things, and most of those things I feel likely are based on religious belief. But I believed some things that I now think are pretty odious moral opinions. 

I think you want to do good, and I'm not always sure that's something you can say about everybody.

I've seen people rely on the Mental Health system only to wither away their strength and resolve over time, and despair.

I go to the Royal Ottawa Mental Health Centre regularly.  If I didn't have distrust of secular authority, I assure, the harm of it would have been greater then the benefit.

It's only because I take from them what benefits me and information that benefits me, and I regularly use to play sports there, and go to other recreational activities, but my greatest asset, is that I didn't believe everything they told me.

I've seen people who even rely on them to tell them what is delusional thinking and what is not, and what is possible to perceive and what not, and what kind of beliefs are normal and what are not, and almost ends up being that beliefs humans all believed for centuries and most still believe today are like delusional beliefs, and what Athiests or Deists who don't believe in much supernatural stuff type, are the normal beliefs.

I am lucky I have a doctor who doesn't do this to me. Other doctors tell people things that over 90% humanity believes are delusional thinking.

I think that is extreme secular view and it causes many people with my illness to distrust the whole system and not even trust in medications helping them.

I wrote an essay about the topic of religion and mental health dialogue to my doctor. I will see what he says about it when I meet him on June 26th.

I believe God made the center of the battle between good and evil, truth and falsehood, the issue of mentally ill people and the way to the cure....In fact, I don't want to digress to the details....

But there will be a huge intellectually battle that will ensue on this I guarantee it will happen.

Right now the mental health dialogue is not a dialogue, it's a monologue....where one side is just being presented as judgmental assholes with no compassion.

Just look for the dialogue when it happens, monologue is never a healthy way to reach a conclusion for any society.

[Amarok]

Yup your a quack