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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 5:20 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:05 pm
(June 4, 2018 at 3:54 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (June 4, 2018 at 3:51 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I said consensus agreement, not proof.
What will the assessment be based on? That it is probable things won't improve no matter what, when that is impossible to conclude.
What the treatment community considers valid.
Impossible to conclude, maybe. What do you want the suffering debilitated patient with no hope to do? Continue to suffer when all treatment options have been exhausted? Oh, I know, wait for a miracle. Got it.
Could it be possible that the miracle they wait for is death?
The medical community has the ability to eliminate untreatable intractable depression, but patients and society no longer consider it an option. What left over isn't much of a life either.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:07 pm
No such thing as untreatable depression. I know for a fact, and yes, we will battle this out intellectually and inshallah, the truth will prevail.
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:12 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 6:52 pm by The Valkyrie.)
(June 4, 2018 at 10:50 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So I know there are quite a few people here who have said that they support assisted suicide for any person who no longer wants to live, so long as they are an adult. The rationale is, a person has the right to end their life for any reason if they so choose, and there should therefore be a safe and painless options for them to do so.
For those people, my question is, do you feel then that it is not appropriate to call 911 when a friend tells you they will kill themselves, since you are preventing them from doing something they have a right to do? Do you think we should lay off the whole suicide prevention thing, and just let people choose for themselves, and not make suicide into this thing we should prevent people from doing?
I don't support euthanasia in all instances because a person is an adult. I will support it if the patient has a terminal condition with no hope of yreatment, if they're in constant pain because of it, and little or no quality of life.
I won't support it simply because someone is depressed and wants to end it.
And if I encountered someone who is suicidal I would do whatever I could to save their life.
First, do no harm.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:14 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 5:15 pm by brewer.)
We've also had this discussion: https://atheistforums.org/thread-34430.html
(June 4, 2018 at 5:07 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: No such thing as untreatable depression. I know for a fact, and yes, we will battle this out intellectually and inshallah, the truth will prevail.
Please demonstrate your fact. The medical community disagrees with you.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:18 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 5:21 pm by Mystic.)
A person living their whole life depressed is not a proof that it was not curable.
And proof to me is simple, it's a promise binding on God in Quran, to deliver believers from grief, if when swallowed by it they turn to him. And to prove that, I would have to prove Quran, but you are interested in simple secular analysis of data which to me is not the way forward.
You prove it's not curable, I assure you, I will stop believing in Quran, just like if you prove consistent daily prayers of remembrance of God is not a cure for anxiety.
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:27 pm
Depression is not curable, but some forms are treatable. There's a huge difference between the two.
It's outside my field, but as someone who suffers from it, let me tell you, it is not fun.
I've never taken medication for it, and I've only ever twice talked to anyone professionably about it.
But that's me and I don't recommend toughing it out to anyone.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:28 pm
(June 4, 2018 at 5:27 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Depression is not curable, but some forms are treatable. There's a huge difference between the two.
What's the difference.... some people heal without meds from it and have wonderful lives? I don't recommend not taking meds, but, what is the difference?
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:30 pm
(June 4, 2018 at 5:28 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (June 4, 2018 at 5:27 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Depression is not curable, but some forms are treatable. There's a huge difference between the two.
What's the difference.... some people heal without meds from it and have wonderful lives? I don't recommend not taking meds, but, what is the difference?
Cure means it's completely gone.
Treatment means it's under control.
I've not encountered anyone truly cured of depression.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: assisted suicide vs suicide prevention
June 4, 2018 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2018 at 5:36 pm by Mystic.)
I've encountered people who have. I know a doctor who just took anti-depressants for a few months, because of depression, finished his placement and is now a doctor. Has a family, lives a wonderful life, and doesn't have it now.
I've met friends who told me they were depressed but as it was taking long to see a Psychiatrist, they self-treated themselves with marijuana, and I see them doing well in university right before my eyes with no sign of depression at the moment.
I was offered anti-depressants by my doctor a long with the medications I didn't take them. I guarantee right now, there isn't an ounce of depression and its not coming back.
I don't know what it means really when you are doing well, to still be called mentally unwell.
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