Peterson's 12 Rules For Life, have you heard of this?

[The Grand Nudger]

He isn't the darling of male anxiety because of his expertise or qualifications.

..............lol, his work on personality traits is widely cited and well respected.  His work on all the marxists hiding in the closet and how women and transgender people are white genociding men... isn't.

Apparently it's the opposite of this, he gained popularity because of the latter? Now popular doesn't always mean correct but in these types of debates there isn't really even a right or wrong.

Yeah, I already mentioned it earlier in thread..but for a recap...

In the 90s, he worked on personality traits.  He became somebody in october of 2016 by protesting the non fact that the canadian government was going to gulag him for refusing to use a transgender students preferred pronoun.  He then went on a "pwning the libs" youtube tour..and finally gave his thesis, entitled..

"Identity Politics and the Marxist Lie of White Privilege"

I'm just unsure of what is actually "better" for society. Why is your or my or anyone's views better than his? What do you or I have over him? Experience? Morality? Years of research?

Maybe he might be right (with certain things, no one is right about everything), and some of what he is saying could actually improve society.

Nothing he says in his capacity as a mouthpiece for paranoid rightwing bigotry will improve society in any way.

[Amarok]

Apparently it's the opposite of this, he gained popularity because of the latter? Now popular doesn't always mean correct but in these types of debates there isn't really even a right or wrong.

Nope he gained popularity because of conspiracies 

I'm just unsure of what is actually "better" for society. Why is your or my or anyone's views better than his? What do you or I have over him? Experience? Morality? Years of research? 

Because Khems views don't whirl around grand conspiracies about Marxists (he doesn't understand Marx at all) 

Maybe he might be right (with certain things, no one is right about everything), and some of what he is saying could actually improve society.

When he's restrained he's very protective left to his own devices his views become twisted

---

Apparently it's the opposite of this, he gained popularity because of the latter? Now popular doesn't always mean correct but in these types of debates there isn't really even a right or wrong.

Yeah, I already mentioned it earlier in thread..but for a recap...

In the 90s, he worked on personality traits.  He became somebody in october of 2016 by protesting the non fact that the canadian government was going to gulag him for refusing to use a transgender students preferred pronoun.  He then went on a "pwning the libs" youtube tour..and finally gave his thesis, entitled..

"Identity Politics and the Marxist Lie of White Privilege"

I'm just unsure of what is actually "better" for society. Why is your or my or anyone's views better than his? What do you or I have over him? Experience? Morality? Years of research?

Maybe he might be right (with certain things, no one is right about everything), and some of what he is saying could actually improve society.

Nothing he says in his capacity as a mouthpiece for paranoid rightwing bigotry will improve society in any way.

Which is odd as Marx would not have liked Identity politics  as he viewed the privileged as being slaves to their own privilege  and that from top down the system was bad for everyone and that violent revolution was simply as way to wipe the board clean and start over at the foundations .

[The Grand Nudger]

The irony of the whole identity politics song and dance...is that Certain Someones™ are convinced that equality is an attack on them, so they circle their wagons and shoot out at all the people doing "identity politics"...to them.

I know..I know..breathtaking.

[bennyboy]

Some people think that bringing about a less bigoted and more egalitarian world is an immense contribution to humanity....and alot of those people also have jobs.  I really don't know where you intend to go with this other than to express how your own internal anxiety becomes hateful and ignorant as you project it out onto the world.

You are using catchwords that don't matter to me. You're saying I'm acting out because I'm insecure-- I'd almost be tempted to call it an appeal to emotionality-- "You're just saying these things because you can't handle X," where X is some emotional state which is meant to stereotype. Here, let's try it out and see if it means anything.

-That women is just acting like that because she probably has PMS or is otherwise hormonal. Otherwise, she probably wouldn't be making that argument.
-That gay person is just angry because he's frustrated with his life. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't be making that argument.

I'm perfectly happy to own my anxiety. I'm living a really try-hard life, and my success depends largely on my being able to keep my eye on the ball as I work 12 hours a day building my business.

It's harder now than it was 15 years ago. I get college kids working for me, and holy fuck! I have to deal with the politics in a very real way. This one can't come to a workplace unless I get a signed form from every parent saying they won't send snacks with peanuts, despite lying on the health form which specifically asks about allergies. That one needs at least 10 minutes break every hour or he starts talking about human rights, even though I let them go home an hour early almost every day, and even though the labor board told him (on speaker phone ) that he had a great schedule-- her words: "I wish I got that pay and those hourly breaks, sir. Your employer sounds quite generous." Another one complains that she's been racially targeted-- her evidence for which is that other teachers sometimes leave books on her desk, which is right next to the teacher's room door and immediately UNDER a book shelf with backup books. I offered to exchange desks with her, and she took this as FURTHER evidence of racism: "I shouldn't HAVE to change desks with you. That you won't find and stop whoever's doing this to me proves that YOU are deliberately supporting this hateful harassment."

Catch that last one again. I immediately identified the real reason people had left books on her desk sometimes, I immediately offered to switch with her, so I would be inconvenienced rather than her, and she STILL found a way to make it all about her, and her victimhood, and my white male privilege. Yes, that creates a lot of anxiety.

The pain of dealing with these people me want to stab steak knives into my eyes just to lessen the pain. I just. . . want. . . to. . . do. . . my. . . fucking. . . job.

This is my experience of the young liberal left-- they are fucking lazy. They are special snowflakes. They expect everything to be done for them. They will not EVER lift a finger to help anyone else. They are owed the world. They do not owe anybody anything, even when given special considerations.

Absolutely, you are right. I'm acting on my anxiety, which is real.

[The Grand Nudger]

You are using catchwords that don't matter to me.  You're saying I'm acting out because I'm insecure-- I'd almost be tempted to call it an appeal to emotionality-- "You're just saying these things because you can't handle X," where X is some emotional state which is meant to stereotype.  Here, let's try it out and see if it means anything.

You are insecure.  You just rattled off a list of your insecurities.  You're going to do it again and then explicitly say that you're insecure below.  

I'm perfectly happy to own my anxiety.  I'm living a really try-hard life, and my success depends largely on my being able to keep my eye on the ball as I work 12 hours a day building my business.

Rock it out.

It's harder now than it was 15 years ago.  I get college kids working for me, and holy fuck! I have to deal with the politics in a very real way.  This one can't come to a workplace unless I get a signed form from every parent saying they won't send snacks with peanuts, despite lying on the health form which specifically asks about allergies.  That one needs at least 10 minutes break every hour or he starts talking about human rights, even though I let them go home an hour early almost every day, and even though the labor board told him (on speaker phone ) that he had a great schedule-- her words: "I wish I got that pay and those hourly breaks, sir.  Your employer sounds quite generous."  Another one complains that she's been racially targeted-- her evidence for which is that other teachers sometimes leave books on her desk, which is right next to the teacher's room door and immediately UNDER a book shelf with backup books.  I offered to exchange desks with her, and she took this as FURTHER evidence of racism: "I shouldn't HAVE to change desks with you.  That you won't find and stop whoever's doing this to me proves that YOU are deliberately supporting this hateful harassment."

Catch that last one again.  I immediately identified the real reason people had left books on her desk sometimes, I immediately offered to switch with her, so I would be inconvenienced rather than her, and she STILL found a way to make it all about her, and her victimhood, and my white male privilege.  Yes, that creates a lot of anxiety.

It's hard to be a white man. 

Our contract requires that sick days must be accompanied with a doctor's note.  It turns out that two employees (they were sisters) did not believe in western-style medicine.  I told them to get a note from their naturopathic healer, whether titled or not.  They said the healer wouldn't give them a sick note because they weren't legally allowed to.  I said fine, give me their phone number so I can verify that you even WENT there.  They refused and started shoveling all kinds of tall tales about why they shouldn't have to: I was violating their right to privacy by trying to find out where they went, I was violating their right to medical self-determination by asking for a doctor's note at all, I was racist because I never questioned a white employee when HE took a day off (actually, he DID get a doctor's note, and he even offered to come in to make up some of the lost classes).  And again. . . in simply trying to carry out the function of the office, they found a way to make it all about my oppressive whiteness.

All of this made me want to stab steak knives into my eyes just to lessen the pain.  I just. . . want. . . to. . . do. . . my. . . fucking. . . job.

This is my experience of the young liberal left-- they are fucking lazy.  They are special snowflakes.  They expect everything to be done for them.  They will not EVER lift a finger to help anyone else.  They are owed the world.  They do not owe anybody anything, even when given special considerations.

Okay.

While I appreciate your story...and Benny you know I loveya bruh...none of that changes the fact that Peterson is a crank who appeals to your insecurities.

Absolutely, you are right. I'm acting on my anxiety, which is real.

Self knowledge is precious! I believe that your insecurities are real..I don't actually believe that the conceptual target of your insecurities, once they manifest themselves as a political ideology.... are.

I think you've drunk the koolaid that was explicitly made for you. I worry that the people who make the koolaid don't really have your best interests..or anyone's best interests, at heart.

[bennyboy]

The irony of the whole identity politics song and dance...is that Certain Someones™ are convinced that equality is an attack on them, so they circle their wagons and shoot out at all the people doing "identity politics"...to them.

I know..I know..breathtaking.

You can be as dismissive as you want.  But in doing so, you are discarding very real frustrations that I have in my own experience of life.  This isn't just a philosophical debate-- it's out there, in the real world, causing real problems. I've just given you a fairly long list of very specific grievances which were caused through no fault of mine, and which are clearly expressions of the kind of PC bullshit of which you are such a noble champion. Your response-- "you're a white man, so wahhhhhh"

I'm not a White Man™, and fuck you for being so dismissive on that basis. I'm a human being, struggling to keep my business afloat and my family fed, just like everyone else.

And yeah, I'm insecure. Why shouldn't I be? Why do you keep saying this-- it feels like it's an argument, but I can't see how it could be.

[The Grand Nudger]

Toughen up bucko. Improve yourself.

[Amarok]

Why do i feel these stories are embellished to make you the victim 

[The Grand Nudger]

Bennys plenty of things.  I doubt he's a big fat liar. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would tell the truth even when the truth fucked him, lol.

That said, part of how he views these interactions is almost certainly bound up in the complex he's describing. He feels victimized..and this is as ironic as the identity politics bit.

[Amarok]

Bennys plenty of things.  I doubt he's a big fat liar.  He strikes me as the kind of guy who would tell the truth even when the truth fucked him, lol.

That said, part of how he views these interactions is almost certainly bound up in the complex he's describing.  He feels victimized..and this is as ironic as the identity politics bit.

Too the first i disagree to the second i very much agree .