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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 5:44 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2018 at 5:54 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: 
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
This is not rocket science.
My moral authority are the objective facts about the universe we all inhabit.
We all live in the same physical universe, subject to the same physical laws. We all have, more or less, the same bodies and brains.
Because of the above objective facts, I can easily extrapolate, that the same types of things that I want for my well being, and ability to flourish, the vast majority of other people want, also.
Life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, confort is preferable to pain, freedom is preferable to slavery, keeping my personal belongings is preferable to having the stolen, etc, etc.
From there, it comes down making decisions, as a moral agent, that will either, not hinder other people's well being, or improve their well being. For every moral decision we make, there are a finite number of choices that will either, not hinder other people's well being, or improve their well being.
For me, it is very easy to find out if slavery is moral or immoral. Ask the slaves how they feel about it. It is easy for me to find out if theft is moral or immoral. Ask the people who have been robbed. Etc, etc...
This is not subjective morality, because it is grounded in the objective physical laws of the universe, that effect the vast majority of us pretty much the same.
And here's the thing. You probably do the same thing. Except you credit your god.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 5:51 pm
(August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
Not getting our morals from someone who claims to be a moral authority. But asking this about atheists is a category error, as they same question would be if asked of theists (you'll get different answers depending on what god they believe in). On this forum, most of the atheists are humanists, who use their brains to figure out what is most moral based on what has the best outcome for human thriving.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 5:52 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2018 at 5:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The faithful constantly remind me that they're not on the same moral page. Makes it seem like a silly question.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 6:03 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2018 at 6:13 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 21, 2018 at 5:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The faithful constantly remind me that they're not on the same moral page. Makes it seem like a silly question.
Yeah.
The thing is, if you look at all the countries in the world with: the lowest crime rates, best health care, lowest infant mortality, lowest poverty rates, highest percentage of upward mobility, highest education rates, most freedoms, etc, they almost all correlate to the countries with the highest percentage of atheist populations.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, and to a slightly lesser extent, Japan, France all have majority atheist populations.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 6:07 pm
(August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
We use the very same internal moral authority that you theists use to create your god in your own image in order to browbeat others like you can’t if your own merits, or lack thereof, is laid bare.
Except we use that internal moral authority much better than your ilk.
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 8:49 pm
(August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
You've had this explained enough times that I think in the future the worthies here can safely avoid trying answer. You are ineducable on this topic.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 21, 2018 at 11:41 pm
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2018 at 12:27 am by Huggy Bear.)
(August 21, 2018 at 5:51 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
Not getting our morals from someone who claims to be a moral authority. But asking this about atheists is a category error, as they same question would be if asked of theists (you'll get different answers depending on what god they believe in). On this forum, most of the atheists are humanists, who use their brains to figure out what is most moral based on what has the best outcome for human thriving. *emphasis mine*
Really?
on this forum:
Some atheists were defending a gay man buggering an under age boy.
Another atheist has stated there 5 people she'd like to kill if she knew she could get away with it.
Another atheist claimed if he lived back in the day, he'd happily participate in chattel slavery.
(I assume you disagree with the above?)
Clearly examples of why an individual's brain isn't capable of deciding what's moral.
So again, what is an atheists moral authority?
(August 21, 2018 at 6:07 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
We use the very same internal moral authority that you theists use to create your god in your own image in order to browbeat others like you can’t if your own merits, or lack thereof, is laid bare.
Except we use that internal moral authority much better than your ilk. As shown above, this supposed "internal moral authority" isn't sufficient.
(August 21, 2018 at 6:03 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (August 21, 2018 at 5:52 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The faithful constantly remind me that they're not on the same moral page. Makes it seem like a silly question.
Yeah.
The thing is, if you look at all the countries in the world with: the lowest crime rates, best health care, lowest infant mortality, lowest poverty rates, highest percentage of upward mobility, highest education rates, most freedoms, etc, they almost all correlate to the countries with the highest percentage of atheist populations.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, and to a slightly lesser extent, Japan, France all have majority atheist populations. *emphasis mine*
Not true
Also I take it you agree with colonialism?
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 22, 2018 at 1:37 am
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2018 at 1:38 am by robvalue.)
This is why I always try and get "morality" defined in discussion with a theist, to stop them sliding between morality based on wellbeing and circular references to their own religion.
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 22, 2018 at 2:32 am
(This post was last modified: August 22, 2018 at 2:33 am by Huggy Bear.)
(August 22, 2018 at 1:37 am)robvalue Wrote: This is why I always try and get "morality" defined in discussion with a theist, to stop them sliding between morality based on wellbeing and circular references to their own religion.
That's literally the first question I asked you guys...
(August 21, 2018 at 4:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: How do atheists define morality?
You should already know that a theist believes in a higher power which is their moral authority.
So far atheist have determined themselves as being their own moral authority, which is interesting seeing how it's the epitome of anarchy; " Do as thou wilt"...
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RE: In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.
August 22, 2018 at 2:59 am
(August 21, 2018 at 5:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:
What is an athiest's moral authority? What puts them on the same moral page?
Huggy. How do you know that you have chosen the right moral authority if you cannot decide for yourself what is morally right or wrong?
Many atrocities have been committed throughout human history by people who have outsourced their morality to a higher power like you. Whether that higher power is a government or a religion. Many people have used the excuse that they were 'just following orders'. Your religion is not the only one. Nor is the culture that you were raised in. There are many other religions and cultures, like the Taliban in Afghanistan who follow different moral codes and commit what the rest of the world consider atrocities but which they consider moral because their holy book tells them to. Or look at any fascist, proto-fascist or authoritarian government that use exceptionalism to make people think that conquering other lands to steal their resources is a morally good to the point where they give their lives to do so (e.g. the British empire, currently the US, WWII Germany etc).
How do you know that your moral authority is not lying to you?
By outsourcing your moral authority you are at best amoral and just blindly following orders. At worst using it as an excuse to be immoral.
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