Good Christians only may answer...

[robvalue]

Of course we have the whole problem of god's plan versus the supposed agency of humans (we'll leave our other animals for simplicity).

Do we have the power to cause events to change from god's plan? Again, each answer is problematic.

If we don't, then we're just part of a theatre. We're not having any effect at all that wasn't scripted for us. If we do, then God has no plan after all, at best he can guess at what is going to happen; or else he constantly screws with things to negate any change we're actually making, although even that is a stretch as an explanation.

Anyhow, if we do have the power to change his plans, I suppose prayer could be asking him to screw with other people so that they do stuff to make whatever you want happen. That only works for prayers that can be accomplished this way though. It's not going to stop any hurricanes.

[Crossless2.0]

the book does not give instructions on how to do it.. stupid people make up their own rituals that have nothing to do with what is written. IT says nothing about not usings safe snake handling tools, or gloves or even a snare pole. is it stupid to handle a snake with the proper tools? the bible does not say they can not be used. it just says people can pick up poisonous snakes. Fools who persume to know the mind of God are the ones who think God is going to cast a spell on them or the snake... no where does it say that and they deserve to be bitten and die for putting those words in God's mouth.

Can i pickup a poisonous snake? I have with a snare pole and gloves. I also picked one up with out any of that, but I had removed it's head with a shovel first. again the bible doesn't say you can't do that. People fill in their own blanks and pretend it is the word of God. this is the exact opposite of what I do and try and teach you all from doing here.

Lol.

Take it up with your fellow believers.

[Drich]

can your own hypocrisy not withstand your own supposed checks and balances? Can't you provide information on the same level that you demand it?

LOL we all provide information on this forum but you & NC showed what you do with that information: ignore it because you are afraid it will destroy your religion. We cover children dying because of their parents religion all the time but you are clueless because you ignore those sections of forum.

Here are few recent

Wisconsin parents arrested after teen son dies during religious fast, police say
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/04/par...-fast.html

we are talking about handeling snake moron... was the kid fasting from eating snakes? and it killed him? are they a snake only eating people?

The case of a Michigan couple charged in the death of their 10-month-old daughter is bringing to light a debate about withholding medical care because of religious beliefs.
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/31/643407967...7286889708

what did this one get bit by a snake and she needed anti venom?

Newborn dies because religious parents don't believe in medical care. Now they're headed to jail
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/newb...ed-to-jail

again moron not unique to religious people. I gave example of green living dirt foot commune living hippies doing the same stupid stuff. when will you admit there are nut bags no matter what you believe and they will look for an excuse no matter which side of God they stand on to circumvent modern medicine?

The parents of a 2-year-old Pennsylvania girl who died of pneumonia have been convicted of involuntary manslaughter after prosecutors said they declined to seek medical care for the child on religious grounds.
https://abc13.com/parents-convicted-in-g...a/3257601/

Did a snake give her pneumonia? are you moving the goal posts again?

"I simply believe man created in the garden was exiled 6000 years ago to live along side evolved man created day 6 according to chapter 1 who evolved with the rest of the planet while the garden was kept seperate.

LOL what a difference.
[/quote]
cute you still don't understand? omg and what's better you are trying to belittle me because you saw the number 6000 and stopped thinking, and assumed that nothing really changed. maybe one of your buddies will be good enough to 'splain' it to you so you can understand. or maybe you will kick start your own mind and seek out the truth for yourself..

Looking back on how you shifted from snake handling to religious denial of medical care I doubt truth is anywhere on your map. you are desperate for a win no matter what at this point. you made a bunch of wrong assumption about something you personally know little about and assumed it applied to the whole country, got caught and now, are looking for a way to save face. so no admitting you were wrong and manning up to ask me a direct question will probably not be on your todo list.

---

Of course we have the whole problem of god's plan versus the supposed agency of humans (we'll leave our other animals for simplicity).

Do we have the power to cause events to change from god's plan? Again, each answer is problematic.

If we don't, then we're just part of a theatre. We're not having any effect at all that wasn't scripted for us. If we do, then God has no plan after all, at best he can guess at what is going to happen; or else he constantly screws with things to negate any change we're actually making, although even that is a stretch as an explanation.

Anyhow, if we do have the power to change his plans, I suppose prayer could be asking him to screw with other people so that they do stuff to make whatever you want happen. That only works for prayers that can be accomplished this way though. It's not going to stop any hurricanes.

why bother posting if you will not accept input or a change of direction? why not just do another video where you just ramble on and on at least it is contained an your opposition doesn't have to sit through it, and you can keep your wrong assumptions about Christianity unopposed.. When you post you get stuff like:

Moron, one more time...

PRAYER IN CHRISTIANITY IS NOT ABOUT CHANGING GOD!!!! iT IS ABOUT GOD CHANGING YOU AND YOUR WANTS!!

YOU ARE INVITING GOD TO REWRITE YOUR DESIRES TO FIT HIS.

So NO! YOU CAN NOT CHANGE GOD'S PLAN, you conform to it.

You still seem to think petition is prayer. they are two seperate things! When you petition God you ask for the things you want. God again almost never answers petitions positivly. in turn He always answers Prayer. "PRaying in Jesus Name is a perfect example of this, as you are asking for what Jesus wants for you to do or have. that is a prayer and he promised to answer in the positive! Asking for bullshit favors is not prayer or trading good deeds for things or a girl friend is not prayer. Prayer is worship prayer is acknowledgement of God Prayer is self alignment with God pray is seeking God out and finding what you seek. prayer is not about the bmw you want.

---

the book does not give instructions on how to do it.. stupid people make up their own rituals that have nothing to do with what is written. IT says nothing about not usings safe snake handling tools, or gloves or even a snare pole. is it stupid to handle a snake with the proper tools? the bible does not say they can not be used. it just says people can pick up poisonous snakes. Fools who persume to know the mind of God are the ones who think God is going to cast a spell on them or the snake... no where does it say that and they deserve to be bitten and die for putting those words in God's mouth.

Can i pickup a poisonous snake? I have with a snare pole and gloves. I also picked one up with out any of that, but I had removed it's head with a shovel first. again the bible doesn't say you can't do that. People fill in their own blanks and pretend it is the word of God. this is the exact opposite of what I do and try and teach you all from doing here.

Lol.

Take it up with your fellow believers.

The snakes are doing it for me. I just wish ever other BS thing has such a quick back lash. alot more houses built on sand would come tumbling down.

[Fake Messiah]

Looking back on how you shifted from snake handling to religious denial of medical care I doubt truth is anywhere on your mapp.

Yeah, like you're looking for truth. I didn't shift anything, this is what I said for what NC & you were asking me citations

Even today, Americans are dying because these verses are in the Bible. Unfortunately, all too often children pay the price for their parents' stupidity.

But, hey, I understand: you are a Christian you need to lie to yourself.

[Drich]

Looking back on how you shifted from snake handling to religious denial of medical care I doubt truth is anywhere on your mapp.

Yeah, like you're looking for truth. I didn't shift anything, this is what I said for what NC & you were asking me citations

Even today, Americans are dying because these verses are in the Bible. Unfortunately, all too often children pay the price for their parents' stupidity.

But, hey, I understand: you are a Christian you need to lie to yourself.

You were exclusively talking about snake handlers dying in droves. you were asked to prove it by neo.. you belittle him for asking for a citation then I asked for one like 2 or 3 times then you produced so bs concerning death citing religious negligence! which is BS because I also cited similar death due to holistic lifestyles and holistic medicines over modern drugs and vaccines. then tie the commonality of certain people who will use whatever excuse not to participate in modern medcine no matter what they believe about god.

[Minimalist]

They still consider “no I won’t” to be an answer from god, and they instinctively know that this will always be the answer if they wish for anything outside the mundane (that could happen anyway).

That ain't what fucking 'jesus' said.... according to their own Holy Horseshit.

21 And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”

Matty  21

Of course you have to be a complete asshole to fall for that but plenty of xhristards are!

[Neo-Scholastic]

...but it is pretty fucking stupid to handle poisonous snakes because an old book tells you that you can.

I agree. And it smacks of putting the Lord to a test. The text says that it might happen to someone sometime in the future. It doesn't say "go grab ya some rattlers".

[Minimalist]

so 14 people in 70+ years...

Isn't that a far cry from fakers claim of people dying all the time? more people died in the last hurricane by almost double. why make such a dubious claim?

It wasn't my claim. Yes, it's a far cry from "mountains" of deaths, but it is pretty fucking stupid to handle poisonous snakes because an old book tells you that you can.

Especially as that passage was added centuries later by some nameless scribe because he thought ( correctly) that "mark" needed a better ending.  Xtians are so loose with their scripture one might almost think of it as diarrhea.

[Bob Kelso]

So NO! YOU CAN NOT CHANGE GOD'S PLAN, you conform to it.

So a theatre then, got it.

Welcome to “It’s God’s Way Anyway” the reality where everything is pre-determined and the actions don’t matter.