In support of Dr. Ford

[I_am_not_mafia]

I don't actually ever remember reading a post from you that showed any empathy.

There have been a few, but even if there weren't, extrapolating from behavior on an internet forum is unwarranted.

I'm sure that you are a bleeding heart liberal when not on the forum  

She's not here though so I only have your perception and interpretation to go on. Feels the same way about what for example?

She finds Ford less believable than I do. I'm pretty neutral on it. My wife, however, doubts Ford due to Ford's inability to remember where it took place, how she got home, etc. My wife remembers all of that. So, your suggestion that a person without empathy for Ford must not understand sexual assault is incorrect, and an insult to women who have been assaulted but don't believe Ford.

But then different people react differently to trauma. For some everything can be remembered in vivid detail. For others they repress the memories because they are too painful. Just because your wife experienced it one way doesn't mean to say that everyone else thinks like her.

The thing is, you're the one who mentioned your wife and used her history to imply that others should also not believe Ford.

I don't know much about the case and haven't been keeping up with the news so I am not going to say one way or another. But what I do know is that you need to be pretty fucked up as a person to lie about something like this regardless of the money. You'd have to be someone who lacks empathy to even suggest otherwise. So your insinuation that Ford is doing it for the money smacks of you just wanting to brush it all under the carpet.

[Brian37]

There have been a few, but even if there weren't, extrapolating from behavior on an internet forum is unwarranted.

I'm sure that you are a bleeding heart liberal when not on the forum  

She finds Ford less believable than I do. I'm pretty neutral on it. My wife, however, doubts Ford due to Ford's inability to remember where it took place, how she got home, etc. My wife remembers all of that. So, your suggestion that a person without empathy for Ford must not understand sexual assault is incorrect, and an insult to women who have been assaulted but don't believe Ford.

But then different people react differently to trauma. For some everything can be remembered in vivid detail. For others they repress the memories because they are too painful. Just because your wife experienced it one way doesn't mean to say that everyone else thinks like her.

The thing is, you're the one who mentioned your wife and used her history to imply that others should also not believe Ford.

I don't know much about the case and haven't been keeping up with the news so I am not going to say one way or another. But what I do know is that you need to be pretty fucked up as a person to lie about something like this regardless of the money. You'd have to be someone who lacks empathy to even suggest otherwise. So your insinuation that Ford is doing it for the money smacks of you just wanting to brush it all under the carpet.

THAT'S IT, ^^^^^^ Right here, and with any trauma. It is literally a form of PTSD, and it happens with assault victims as well.

I believe Ford when she says he did it, just like I believe my mom that she was too scared to look at them, but was able to point out the ally behind the shopping center she was raped in. When you are under extreme stress you can very easily remember vivid details while missing others.

Both with Ford and my mother, they each had very vivid details of different things, while the trauma clouded other things. 

Ford remembered his face, but not the exact location or day. My mom remembered the exact location and day, but had no description of their faces. 

I am sick of this ignoring that false allegations are rampant when they are not.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I believe Ford when she says he did it, just like I believe my mom that she was too scared to look at them, but was able to point out the ally behind the shopping center she was raped in. When you are under extreme stress you can very easily remember vivid details while missing others.

Both with Ford and my mother, they each had very vivid details of different things, while the trauma clouded other things. 

Ford remembered his face, but not the exact location or day. My mom remembered the exact location and day, but had no description of their faces. 

That's the effect of adrenaline on the brain. It focuses the attention on very specific things. And of course the more focused you are on one thing, the less focused you become on everything else.

It's a known phenomenon in the world of martial arts when you're in a fight. One typical example would be that you are facing off against one person and because of the adrenaline you don't notice his friend coming from the side until he punches you in the face.

So you get taught that if you are sure that you can't avoid a fight, you need to avoid making eye contact and use your peripheral vision for keeping track of what's happening around you. You can react just as fast but not get locked on focusing on just one thing.

It's also a problem in extreme sports. For example, my paragliding instructor went on an SIV course where you deliberately deform your glider in mid-flight so you can learn how to correct it. He almost crashed into the ground and died because he became so focused on trying to sort out his wing. It was only the screaming of his instructor over the radio that finally caught his attention and he realised he had literally seconds left to throw his reserve parachute.

I was once flying 800 feet up above a mountain top when I got caught in a gust front, convergence and a thermal all at the same time without a reserve parachute. My glider died on me in quite a spectacular fashion because the air was so unstable. I only remember snippets, but those snippets are burned into my memory. It actually took me quite an effort to actually piece together all those snippets to figure out what happened.

But of course a coward like Trump would never have experienced this himself. All he has ever known is being waited on hand and foot.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I doubt that anyone sending Ford postcards personally knows her from a can of paint. Same for Kavanaugh. I am praying for both. Seems to me, both sides are projecting their own experiences onto the accuser and the accused. Feeling a general sympathy for victims of sexual assault and general feelings of sympathy for people whose reputations have been destroyed by false accusations do not automatically translate into an obligation to believe either party. Moreover, it is possible to believe Ford was sexually assaulted and believe Kavanaugh didn't do it. it is also possible to believe that a very awkward sexual encounter between two teenagers could be forgotten by one and wildly embellished by the faulty recall of the other. And it is even possible that one or both of them is/are lying to cover hidden motivations.

Nevertheless, I truly believe the judge has been put in the impossible situation of trying to refute a vague crime claimed by one and only one person who has identified herself as the victim. It is also possible but highly unlikely that any investigation will uncover anything new from 30 to 35 years ago and that calls for an indefinitely long investigation to find something that might not even exist is unreasonable. As for the other women who have come forward, to me, they are not credible. YMMV. And to see Senators reading meanings into the inside jokes and juvenile innuendos of a high-school yearbook as part of the confirmation process of a high official only reinforces, in my mind, is a very sad commentary on the state of our republic.

[John V]

I'm sure that you are a bleeding heart liberal when not on the forum  

No, but I have empathy for many hurting people. I'm pretty cold on some topics. Like pet deaths, I just feel like grow the fuck up. But I have empathy on many other issues, particularly addictions.

But then different people react differently to trauma. For some everything can be remembered in vivid detail. For others they repress the memories because they are too painful. Just because your wife experienced it one way doesn't mean to say that everyone else thinks like her.

The thing is, you're the one who mentioned your wife and used her history to imply that others should also not believe Ford.

I didn't suggest that at all. I said that I'm pretty neutral regarding Ford's credibility, despite my wife's doubts. I agree that people react differently. But, I do find it somewhat suspicious that she remembers things that help her charge (drank exactly one beer) but forgets things that could provide falsifiability (like how she got home).

I don't know much about the case and haven't been keeping up with the news so I am not going to say one way or another. But what I do know is that you need to be pretty fucked up as a person to lie about something like this regardless of the money. You'd have to be someone who lacks empathy to even suggest otherwise. So your insinuation that Ford is doing it for the money smacks of you just wanting to brush it all under the carpet.

Again, your inferences aren't necessarily my implications. She didn't know she'd get $700,000 for this when she came forward. That's just a bonus. Maybe a book deal will come next.

[CapnAwesome]

What?

I'm sure what she really wants is to have to dispose of thousands of postcards that she doesn't have time to read. The lady is a busy professional. I think that sounds more like people making themselves feel good, not supporting her.

Gofundmes for her seem like a scam. She's not poor.

[brewer]

I do support her but will not send a card. I doubt she has time for fly over people.

[Brian37]

I'm sure that you are a bleeding heart liberal when not on the forum  

No, but I have empathy for many hurting people. I'm pretty cold on some topics. Like pet deaths, I just feel like grow the fuck up. But I have empathy on many other issues, particularly addictions.

But then different people react differently to trauma. For some everything can be remembered in vivid detail. For others they repress the memories because they are too painful. Just because your wife experienced it one way doesn't mean to say that everyone else thinks like her.

The thing is, you're the one who mentioned your wife and used her history to imply that others should also not believe Ford.

I didn't suggest that at all. I said that I'm pretty neutral regarding Ford's credibility, despite my wife's doubts. I agree that people react differently. But, I do find it somewhat suspicious that she remembers things that help her charge (drank exactly one beer) but forgets things that could provide falsifiability (like how she got home).

I don't know much about the case and haven't been keeping up with the news so I am not going to say one way or another. But what I do know is that you need to be pretty fucked up as a person to lie about something like this regardless of the money. You'd have to be someone who lacks empathy to even suggest otherwise. So your insinuation that Ford is doing it for the money smacks of you just wanting to brush it all under the carpet.

Again, your inferences aren't necessarily my implications. She didn't know she'd get $700,000 for this when she came forward. That's just a bonus. Maybe a book deal will come next.

HOLY SHIT YOU STUPID FUCK, this isn't about money or class! THIS IS ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT YOU STUPID FUCK!

My mom didn't get rich or famous nor did she get a book deal, nor were the perps famous. Quit your bullshit poor me false victim CRAP. Sexual assault is an ASSAULT issue, not a class issue. 

So basically women cant accuse anyone because men are scared. FUCK YOU!

[CapnAwesome]

I also am unsure what to make of her accusations. I listen to the innocence project podcast, which is a great podcast run by very left wing people, and the two most common things that lead to wrongful convictions are sexual assault allegations and false witness identification.

Listen to a good thirty episodes of that and you realize how fragile memory is and how many people have been falsely sent to prison because someone said they were 100% sure it was that person they saw.

So it's nice to say "believe women" but I'll stick to the Atheist mantra of "believe evidence"

[Aroura]

Interestingly, experiencing something yourself and then assuming everyone else should have the same experience as you is exactly an example of the opposite of empathy. That's an extremely selfish way of thinking.  Being able to understand that other people experience things differently than you do is what empathy means.

Often people who lack empathy do so because they themselves have been treated poorly, or had emphasis placed on outward things (being pretty, having the best car, the smartest kids, the highest paying job, etc.)

Most people have some amount of empathy.  Being around others who discourage empathic thinking can reduce our own.  Being treated so poorly we can only think of ourselves as a protective measure is another way people lose some of their empathy.

Empathy is important because it is what makes society run.  It isn't religion, or marriage, or anything else.  The very basis for all of our social contracts is empathy.  The Golden Rule is basically a tine lesson on empathy.  If we are unable to put ourselves in other people's shoes, we end up treating them as less than human.

This is really important right now, as many survivors of sexual assault are treated as such.  Women in general are often enough still seen as less, or at the very least, different.  Too emotional, some men find themselves unable to put themselves in womens shoes. Naturally this then goes both ways, if we push a narrative that men are less emotionally accessible, women will find them more alien and less relatable.

This happens with all sorts of groups, how we make them the other and then find a way not to empathize with them.  It's really the greatest issue with Trump, imho.  All of his other flaws pale in comparison with his inability to empathize with anyone else, ever.  Everything is always about him.  Not the US, not his constituents, not our allies.  If someone supports him, then he will reward them. If someone does not, he ignores them.  If someone opposes them, he punishes.  We see people he liked go on his shit list when they dare challenge him, or like Lindsey Graham, go from attacking him to kissing his ass to save himself.  And it works because all that matters to Trump is Trump.  

And so some of us are very tired of people lacking sympathy.  Do I have sympathy for those wrongly accused?  100%, I do.  I am appalled at the state of our prisons, where many people are put for crimes they did not commit, or for crimes that should not carry such a harsh sentence.  My own aunt said she was raped to cover for her unwanted pregnancy at age 17.  Fortunately she never accused a specific man, and by the time the baby came she had admitted the truth, but I know what desperate situations can drive people to do.  Now that we are on the verge of forcing a lot more women back into those situations, I expect false accusations may rise.  That's extremely bad, and yet another reason to continue to allow women bodily autonomy.

I've also known a man, personally, who was accused of sexual misconduct by an older women.  He denied it, there wasn't any evidence (masturbating in front of her in her home where they both lived), and so her claims were ignored, dismissed as perhaps an old women mistaking a man adjusting his robe, or accidently catching a glimpse.
After the women died some 20+ years later, the man finally admitted to her family that he had done what she had accused him of.  He was suffering quite a lot of guilt.  At any rate, the women's daughter blames herself to this day for not believing her own mother.  And she can never tell her now that she does.

The fact is, false accusations are rare.  Most accusations are true, and yet we (society) treat most accusers as if they are liars, particularly if they don't conform to how we personally think a victim should behave.  That old lady never mentioned it again.  How many more times did he sexually abuse her because no one was listening?  

1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime.  That's not sexual assault or misconduct, that's just rape.
There isn't a directly comparable statistic, but estimates are between 2 and 10% of accusations are false.  Note that not all of these are intentionally false. With intentionality factored in, estimates are no more than 3%.  That means 90%+ of accusations are true within definitions of the law.  Why are we worried more about the 3% of malicious accusations than the 97% of malicious attacks?  Why are we, as a society, more worried about protecting our sons than our daughters, when our daughters are in fact in far, far more danger?  We treat all accused as innocent, and all accusers as guilty.

Sexual assault and false accusation rates have declined over time, with awareness of issues raised, women having better access to health care, etc.  When these go backwards, expect the rates to rise again.  

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.

Attributed to Margaret Atwood, perhaps wrongly.