President Bush The Smarter Has Passed Away

[Fake Messiah]

What happened in the meantime?

[brewer]

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

How unutterably sad is it that you've gone from this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQhbEh8AeSA

to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4OxXsWfKX0

Boru

[Belacqua]

How unutterably sad is it that you've gone from this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQhbEh8AeSA

to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4OxXsWfKX0

Boru

The contrast seems larger than it is, because (as always happens) when a powerful American dies we all have to say nice things and forget his evil. 

If you take away Bush 1's veneer of courtesy and look behind the hagiography in the media, you'll remember that he did horrible things. He made the world a worse place.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

you'll remember that he did horrible things.

Name some.

Boru

[Angrboda]

Engaging in regime change overtly through the expedient of an unjust war sets you up for the negative consequences that I've already outlined, whereas covert actions are not as likely to do so.   The fact that the U.S. does and has preferred covert attempts at regime change to overt acts of war aimed at regime change undermines your argument because it shows that, for reasons which I've only partially argued, doing so is worse and more harmful to our long term interests than covert action is.

Overt action should be used when it's a soft target, as Iraq and Libya were. 

It being a soft target doesn't eliminate the negatives that I previously outlined, and I think that's a poor rationalization. You're just spinning ad hoc reasons in an attempt to legitimize your views.

[brewer]

How unutterably sad is it that you've gone from this:

Who is the "you've"?

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL @ "Babs wouldn't like it.... it'll only be four years"

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

How unutterably sad is it that you've gone from this:

Who is the "you've"?

The US.

Boru

[GUBU]

Bush Sr.'s critical blunder was in not finishing the job of the First Gulf War and taking out Saddam.

It was in no wise a blunder, for three reasons:

1.  Under the UN Resolutions pertaining to the invasion, 'taking out Saddam' would have been illegal.

2.  It would have violated assurances given to other Arab countries (and to coalition members) that the US goal was ONLY to liberate Kuwait.

3.  Consequential of #2, it would have shattered US relations with ALL Arab states, resulting in the removal of your bases in those countries, and skyrocketing the price of oil.

In retrospect, not removing Saddam, rather than being a blunder, was a wise bit of statesmanship on Bush's part.

Boru

Yeah, Shrub Snr's biggest blunder with Iraq was to promise Saddam he got his back over Kuwait stealing Iraqi oil, and then reneging on that promise.

His other blunder was to promise the Marsh Arabs (just above Basrah) and the Kurds that if they rose up against Saddam after Iraq war 6 (yes seriously, the sixth war against Iraq waged by either the UK or US in the 20th century) that the US would protect them, and then failing to lift a finger when the uprisings happened.