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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 8, 2011 at 4:15 pm
(This post was last modified: January 8, 2011 at 4:16 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
If paradise is perfect happiness and "perfect" is without flaws, then how would you know when your happiness didn't have flaws? When it couldn't be better? Well, you'd need to know what the limits to human happiness are. Then when you know that, if you can achieve maximum happiness all the time for everyone for an eternity, you've got eternal paradise.
Although, if we include crazy speculation of better possible alternative happinesses and not just what's reasonable, you couldn't ever really know if you've reached it.
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 12:46 am
FadingW Wrote:Humanity has had a lot of ups and downs over our existence. Even all these generations later we are still dealing will issues of war, poverty, greed, exploitation, etc.
So I was thinking: if we had an eternity, could paradise be achieved? If limited time gives a small chance of creating utopia, does eternity guarantee it?
If human nature is the same in heaven as on earth, I suspect we'll all be very busy even with 'forever'.
I hardly think what makes it to Heaven of us will be the part with the capacity or inclination towards such ill will.
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 1:15 am
Then is it really you?
Is vivisection of one's personality leave what one truly is?
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 1:43 am
Who is to say? What defines 'you'? What is it that makes you a person and an entity seperate from any other save for the body you inhabit? It's impossible to say, really. Perhaps when one goes to Heaven they find that they are more purely 'them' than they ever have been.
We can't really know until we get there, 
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 7:36 am
I am myself. Other than that, I ultimately don't know what the fuck I am.
You can change me completely and it's still 'me', just a different me.
I can die and it's still 'me' just me as a corpse.
I am a bunch of energy but that energy can change and it's still 'me'.
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 2:43 pm
DoubtVsFaith Wrote:I am a bunch of energy but that energy can change and it's still 'me'.
Now your sounding like my missus.... stop it! 
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Why??
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 9, 2011 at 5:47 pm
DoubtVsFaith Wrote:I am myself. Other than that, I ultimately don't know what the fuck I am.
You can change me completely and it's still 'me', just a different me.
I can die and it's still 'me' just me as a corpse.
I am a bunch of energy but that energy can change and it's still 'me'.
You're right; for the most part, none of us know what truly makes us who we are. But isn't 'you' defined as what you currently are and exist as right now. 'You' are the summation of every moment leading up to this one; a result of all the experiences, beliefs, thoughts and structure that make up the uniue entity which is 'you.'
A theoretical entity that was different from you in any way would no long be 'you' as you is currently defined. It would be an entity very similar to 'you', but not quite the exact same 'you'. This entity would be it's own 'you' that happens to be very similar to you. This probably warrants a completely seperate philisophical topic, but oh well.
I'm reminded of a song, "It's getting hard to be someone, but it all works out..."
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 10, 2011 at 1:07 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2011 at 1:11 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Watson Wrote:isn't 'you' defined as what you currently are and exist as right now.[?]
No. Me in the past and me in the future is, by definition, me. It's me in the past and future instead of me in the present.
Quote:'You' are the summation of every moment leading up to this one;
You contradict yourself. Now you are implying that I am myself in the past right up until myself at the present. But you don't mention how, of course, the future me is me in the future.
Quote:A theoretical entity that was different from you in any way would no long be 'you'
Me at different times is me. It's me at different times.
Quote: It would be an entity very similar to 'you', but not quite the exact same 'you'.
No, it's me. It's me at a different time.
I am being myself now, I was being myself before (whether that's me before I was born or after) and I will be myself later (whether that's a living me or a dead me).
I was, I am and I will be, myself.
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RE: Heaven, paradise etc.
January 14, 2011 at 12:12 pm
All this goes to show Christians are living their lives in the hope of going somewhere (they don't know where), to do (they don't know what), where that place has the attributes of (they don't know), to be with somone who is (they can't comprehend). Seems a bit of a crap deal to delude yourself your whole life, in the vain hope that it is all true.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
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