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How to discuss religion with believers?
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 (February 7, 2019 at 4:30 pm)snowtracks Wrote: [quote pid='1883079' dateline='1549570533'] [/quote] Hello!  Uhm... I don't think that follows? I mean... yeah, some atheists believe there are no dietys. That's not my thoughts though. The follow on of "They thence believe they are..." ? Yah, I really don't see how that follows.... Cheers. Not at work.  (February 7, 2019 at 4:30 pm)snowtracks Wrote: "An atheist does not believe that there are any gods.' Therefore they believe there are gods. Can you explain what you mean by that sentence? But its all a bit too Lewis Carol for me. You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.  (February 7, 2019 at 4:30 pm)snowtracks Wrote:(February 7, 2019 at 4:15 pm)Dr H Wrote: Quite simple, really. "ungodly:" literally means disobeying God, or going against God."An atheist does not believe that there are any gods.' Therefore they believe there are gods. Is English not your first language, by any chance?
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Dr H "So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."  (February 8, 2019 at 6:55 pm)Dr H Wrote:Perhaps, the sentence s/b: An atheist believes there aren't any gods.(February 7, 2019 at 4:30 pm)snowtracks Wrote: "An atheist does not believe that there are any gods.' Therefore they believe there are gods.
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
 RE: How to discuss religion with believers?
February 8, 2019 at 9:43 pm
(This post was last modified: February 8, 2019 at 9:45 pm by brewer.)
crap, crap, crap
 (December 18, 2018 at 8:55 pm)Scientia Wrote: So my question is: how do you engage in a discussion with these people without it derailing? It's as if they were willfully ignoring or filtering some information, I don't really get it. I'm not really trying to convert them, but rather trying to understand the reasoning that leads them to believe in whatever religion... but no matter how hard I try to understand, their logic is just not in order. Sometimes I'm literally asking them to help me believe in their religion, but every time it's just not enough information to warrant any belief. You don't. A part of the indoctrination scheme is that they deny logic that defies their faith, because most believers have been swayed by emotion and/or indoctrination. And as Sam Harris points out, what piece of logic are you gonna present someone unconvinced by logic? Not all believers are this way, mind. Some genuinely believe on, what they perceive, logical arguments and proofs, which it is possible to have a debate with. But in my experience, those are few and far between.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
 (February 7, 2019 at 4:30 pm)snowtracks Wrote: "An atheist does not believe that there are any gods.' Therefore they believe there are gods. Let me see if I can explain this so you can comprehend. To believe means that I have been convinced by evidence or argument in the truth of some statement. In this case, the statement that some God exists. Now, suppose I have not been convinced. In that case, I do not have the belief. But, it is also quite possible that I have not been convinced either way. So I may well remain unconvinced that no God exists. So, it is possible to be an atheist (not having a belief) and also not believe there is not God because *neither* position has been convincing. Now, I am *assuming* you left out the words 'do not' in your second sentence. Otherwise, what you said is pure nonsense as opposed to simply being wrong. (February 9, 2019 at 5:42 pm)polymath257 Wrote:(February 7, 2019 at 4:30 pm)snowtracks Wrote: "An atheist does not believe that there are any gods.' Therefore they believe there are gods. The 'not' placement is unusual; perhaps: "An atheist believes there aren't any gods".
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
RE: How to discuss religion with believers?
February 16, 2019 at 10:58 am
(This post was last modified: February 16, 2019 at 11:05 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Some do, at least. And? The sentence is still a little ambiguous because of how we use language, a split between connotation and denotation. I know that there are thousands of gods. If we wanted to be super accurate about it, all atheists know that there are gods, but no atheist believes in the existential claims made about those gods. Like dracula, we all know that drucala is a thing that exists, even if we also know that vampires don't, or simply don;t believe that they do. It's just easier to say "god's don't exist" or "vampires don't exist" and lean on the assumption that the other guy knows what you mean by that utterance.
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