How to discuss religion with believers?

[Drich]

1) Evidence found/presented in court and how "justice" is administered in general is just one of the lesser evil. In an uthopic society, you wouldn't need laws and you wouldn't need men-judges. However we all know it doesn't work like that, and so we have to create a system that, despite not being perfect, is somewhat functional and helps to regulate society. Some have subjectively "better" laws/regulations than others and some are questionable.

never the less judgement and eyewitness testimony is the glue that binds THIS society together. without it there is no justice there is no peace there is no society. So why then pretend that taking the word of an eye witness is some how a marginal form of evidence? when the literal F-ing world works this way!

2) Pretty much. I understand the rules by which society plays, but I still don't see it as the perfect system and many things are left to the subjectivity of the judge. So you are correct in the sense that I do not agree with the whole criminal justice system and that I question it. I don't believe it is right to leave a man's fate in the hands of someone's word. At the same time I can't come up with a better solution at the moment to regulate society, and so I accept it as a compromise for the time being and try to play by the rules. Again, it's one of the lesser evils, otherwise you'd have rampaging savages. 

why does this need be a perfect system? when all that needs to be generated is a faith that of a mustard seed to inspire one to truly seek out God on his terms? It's not that you are ment to find christ on my experience? you are meant to seek out God and forge your own experience with God, whether it be an angel dream vision so real the memory plays back with smells and taste, or maybe The Spirit himself will sit you down and explain as if you were retarded. God know what you need, and will over time give you everything you need to establish and maintain your own relationship. Just gotta seek him on his terms and not your own. That's all my account is suppoed to do for you. is to get you to look for God where he says look for him. Then hold on to something because everything will change.

3) This made me giggle. Science is proven right every single day,

no. Some areas of science can be exploited as we understand basic principles we can predict through the very method God will never be found for if he is then would not be God. There is much in science that over time is proven wrong even if everyday from now till then we think is right. again until jan 2018 there was a literal hole in the ozone. not a thin layer a physical hole was said to be there that sealed itself in 97 (My industry was greatly effected by this and alot of changes where made and as a result we all were made to follow said progress, till a whistle blower blew the bottom out of this whole thing. now almost 30 years later the truth is coming out and you noobs have no idea how much the science had changed to fit the money grab that took place between 1985 ans 1993 from which I have a federal issued card in my wallet that says I have bee tested and understand all the ins and outs of the Montreal protocol and the reasoning behind it! which is the polar oppsite of what is being said now.

My point is the faith one has to have in ever changing science is infact Greater than what is needed for God Himself to take your life and give you everything YOU personally need to start and maintain a relationship.

Global cooling and the mini ice age by 2000 was another example.

Then in 98/99 global warming then in 2010 global climate change so no matter what happens the sky is falling!

justice is not. When something in science doesn't work, it gets revisited and eventually mistakes fixed. 

Never hear of a case being over turned?
The same happenes either way sport you are missing the whole point.

The evidence is not in my experience my experience is to show you it is possible to get your own experience with God collecting the evidence he direct to you specifically.

4) Oh I like tests. Here's what I require to believe in God: 

I'd like him to show me that he's indeed the omnipotent creator of everything by doing it in front of me. Specifically I'd require him to manipulate matter at the atomic level and transform it by snapping his fingers; for example, displace electrons between oxygen and nytrogen in the air, emit some radiation and turn it into lead or gold or water or whatever. 

two things honestly you don't know what you will need till he gives it to you.. Maybe you need stage 4 butt cancer with nothing doctors can do at this point but make you comfortable then wake up the next day without a trace. or maybe you need to be in a plane crash where 200 people die and you are the only one who lives. Or maybe you need to spend a night in literal hell. (I do not recommend that one) Or maybe you need to win the lottery.. My suggestion is try and open your mind, and not demand God try and fit in this little crappy box you designed..

Two what if God did exactly that? what if God turned a measure (Say a 1 ft squared @ 14.7psig/sea level air) of oxygen and nitrogen into gold.. would you be able to see
those atoms to verify? Got to remember there is going to be a hella mass differential between air and gold. meaning you would probably have to pull all the atoms air out of 10 square miles and condense them down to a tiny nugget.. unless he left you in, and allowed the vacuum stand there by killing everything/having them implode. how would you know someone did not just slight of hand make a nugget appear? I could literally make what you want to see happen, and I am not god.

Again seek him on his terms allow him to work in your life, he more than you knows what you need.

I'm asking to see something that no one can currently do but that isn't physically impossible.

but again bI can produce the net effect as you on your person do not have the ability to verify what you are asking.

Basically play by his own rules. If he created everything, if he was the source of the big bang, then it shouldn't be so difficult to replicate a small scale big bang experiment. It shouldn't be so fantasy to transform matter into energy and viceversa. I mean, we can already do that to a certain extent, roughly, but we don't have that much precision. If he can show me that he can manipulate matter at will, manually pick electrons and protons and displace them between atoms, basically if he can show me that he's a "reality surgeon", that he's able to create other realities and also destroy them, then I will acknowledge that he's god. If he can show me that he can transform air into organic matter, make it live and die in front of me, and turn it into a stone, I'll believe he's god. If he can show me that he cuts his own arm or takes out his own heart, lets me touch it and feel it pumping, and then place everything back in his body, I'll believe him. Or well, if anything, I'll at least acknowledge the existence of such a powerful being that I would consider God. It's the same as asking your fellow scientist to replicate the results of his research. Also, he supposedly did something similar already with one of his disciples through the stigmata of Christ but I wasn't there at the time. Can't he do it once more for me?

Again this is an example of God on your terms. The God of the bible demand you seek him on his terms, he will not meet you on yours. Otherwise he would be the God of your creation and not the God of creation meaning he is the first and last word on how things will be done.

Perhaps in the future, men will be able to gain such knowledge that allows them to do these feats, and perhaps even a time traveler from the future with such powers could convince me that he's a god. In that case, kudos to him for conning me. I wouldn't be ashamed to have believed in such thing. Even in that case I'll acknowledge them being superior beings on par with any god described in textbooks.

You said he will move mountains of doubt for me. I'm not asking to see mountains moving (that happens anyways naturally, so it's not a big deal), I'm just asking him to introduce himself "Hello, I am God", and replicate a small scale version of his experiment (create the universe and life) deliberately in front of me. Do you think he could do that?

It happened for me. but again I am not you. If you demand God xyz I can promise even if he xyz for me you will be left in silence. As this is not how he said approach him. Again if There was a protocol to meet the queen or obama do you think you would have a chance to meet them on your terms bypassing all the things they need you to do to qualify to meet them? Why then would a being infinatly more powerful be then expected to do parlor tricks for you bypassing what he has demanded from us?

Because well, I refuse to accept as my superior someone who is exactly like me and can do the same things as me but can't be seen, heard, touched or felt in any way and DEMANDS me to serve him. It simply defies my logic, philosophy of life, pride, everything. 

you think too highly of yourself/ too proud. God is not like you even if he can or decided to use every day things to accomplish his will. what makes God different what makes God god and not like you? the ability to put his will his power into the world and it become everyday.

You may have spent time in jail, but it's clear to me you haven't spent enough time in a lab, where experiments seldom work as you had planned.

again you miss the point to champion science. What I said is the criminal justice system using eyewitness testimony more times than not gets it right, using eyewitness testimony as a legit source of proof and evidence, even if science fails more times than not refusing to except the same measure of proof.

No, the seven creation thing simply requalifies creation as a viable non conflicting addition to anything evolution demands. It simply allows believers to hold on to their faith without have to sacrifice any scientific belief that maybe required of them.

7) Basically speculation.

-Or a simply reading of the literal interpretation of a 7 day creation that also assimilates the whole of evolution so that both can be true at the same time.

Riddle me this.. have you ever heard this theory from either side before? has anyone even come close to explaining all the supposed paradoxes, put man out of the garden 6000 years ago while still allow for natural evolution of homo sapeians? Again I got to watch these thing unfold almost as if I where there all with in a 10 or 15 min viewing. not too shabby for a certified retard that God has access to use..

Dude, how big is a mustard seed? aagain it seems as if you missed it or ignored what I said, it is the faith required to simply follow the directions Christ left in an effort to find God. you basically have to be willing to Ask Seek and knock God's way and not your own.

8) Around 1 mm3, circa 2 mg. By putting it into Einstein's equation E = mc2, we get E = (2*10^-6 Kg)*(3*10^9 m/s)^2 which gives us E = 1.8*10^25 J
Translating this number in tangible terms, 1 mustard seed meant in terms of energy is equal to the energy release from the explosion of 50 ton of TNT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQr62lZbsM , which is quite a considerable amount in my book

Are you 10? or do you think I am still a retard to chase you down this broken line of reasoning?? Enstein Energy to mass equation does not apply sport. I gave an answer that has nothing to do with multiplying anything twice the speed of light which didn't Einstein himself say was not possible?

Again found in luke 11 this time I will post it:
5-6 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose one of you went to your friend’s house very late at night and said to him, ‘A friend of mine has come into town to visit me. But I have nothing for him to eat. Please give me three loaves of bread.’ 7 Your friend inside the house answers, ‘Go away! Don’t bother me! The door is already locked. My children and I are in bed. I cannot get up and give you the bread now.’ 8 I tell you, maybe friendship is not enough to make him get up to give you the bread. But he will surely get up to give you what you need if you continue to ask. 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”

The Holy Spirit is God... What more proof of God does one need than to be sat in front of God? to as God a question and receive an answer to pray and effect change to have that "capacity switch" turn on. To see and hear things you could not before to have access to Him and his wisdom. then to put it all to use and it all turn out to work and be true.

9) That's statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_statistics , probability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling . It was a thing 3000 years before the bible was even written. Throw the dice 100 times, statistically you'll get a 6 at some point. How is that the proof that the holy spirit is god or that any of them exists at all? 

ok let use your gambling example. you say it is possible to roll a six one time out of 100.. I have been rolling 6s for the last 25 years. again I from the beginning have said if this where a one or two time thing.. it is possible it is just a matter of luck, but again 20+++ years of this is no longer luck. You can not luck your way into a patent, you can not luck you way into a company that does national sales and sustain all of this.. How is it not God after so long?

Also in life, if you want something badly, you'll do everything to get that something and eventually you get it.

tell that to my dad my uncle my cousins and even one of my sisters. want and hard work mean shite.

That's how you get stuff done in real life. If I want to go somewhere, I'll stress my boss until she's convinced to send me there.

And I would simply find a employee happy working where they are at.

If I want to publish a paper in a renown journal, I'll accept all the crap suggestions the editor requires of me until I publish it.

then why not have him simply write the paper and use your name? if someone is allowed to take your core idea and change it, then it is not yours. If an edditor wants a book paper writen on a certain subject then let him right it.

If you want to get a job so bad, you'll find it.

you may find something but simply wanting a job does not give you the job you want! I have worked a lot of crappy jobs, and I work each and every sigle one of them with all that i has and for the most part my efforts meant nothing. I was often there to fill a role till that role was no longer needed to be filled.

I obtained pretty much everything I reasonably wanted in life, and it wasn't because of miracles or because some entity helped me. I insisted and insisted and the circumstances were favourable enough until it statistically became a thing. With each attempt I just pushed the odds. That's called determination, perseverance and well, "luck". In all of this I never asked god anything. I did it on my own and I was lucky enough.[quote] but again could you accomplish what you did if you could not read till well in your twenties? what if your only skill was how to mop? or you knew how to pick a whole orange tree with only re positioning your ladder 4 times? meaning would hard work and determination mopping floors put you in your current situation? would sheer determination get you out of the orange grove?

Can you from where you are at now see a level of living above and beyond anything you can do to get there? For example you do understand that Air Force 1 the president's plane was a step down for Donald trump? That this man lived on a level of power and wealth that exceeds the office of the presidency? The point is not a political one but to show you by example there are many stations in life and while you might live better than most, try to imagine being bumped up a few stations through no possible means of your own! For you what I leved through is your deserved everyday for the time and education you got. To me being tasked with watching "scratch off lottery money" maybe like yo winning one of those billion dollar prizes. again because nothing I did 'earned me this spot.'


[quote]
10) Just to confirm: does this "hellfire" refer to the feeling of not being loved or disregarded/ignored/abandoned by god?

There is a feeling of being outside but the 'fire itself refer to the tar like blackness that consumes or tears at your being. it is the destruction form and the emotional response it brings. Fire consumes the physical while hell fire destroys or burns any part of creation which i guess includes love as I remember think it could feel my sanity going as well.

I've always been curious about this because nuns at school depicted it similarly to Dante's inferno which was scary for a kid, but when you ask actual christians it's like this hell is something more generic and vague, sometimes only an allegoric figure and doesn't refer to actual eternal physical pain and discomfort in the afterlife. Thanks

dante's infero via the simpsons episode is my biggest most relatable understanding of hell before this. I though i was going to be tortured by being cut up into sausage or made to eat donuts forever. This hell made no sense to me I did not know what was happening I wasn't even sure this was supposed to be bad till it started to consume me and I could ot get out I could not do anything but panic and grit my teeth as hard as I could and scream "the gnashing of teeth I later found out.) what's more no satan figures tormenting us as they themselves were further down being tormented/being burned up by Hell fire themselves.

11) I said before that I don't really have a reason to live, but I survive and try to distract myself with funny and entertaining activities. That lack of reason to live stems exactly from a limitation in my lifespan that doesn't let me learn all the discernible. If I were immortal, I would want to learn everything. Does this mean that I stopped learning? No, not at all. Even before dying I'll try to learn all I can that I can reasonably digest and assimilate. I thirst for knowledge and so far I navigated this world through the sensory organs of this body I inhabit and through the means of science I was provided at this time in history. I learnt a lot and it's still nothing in the big picture, but this doesn't stop me from asking questions. I'd rather die with unanswered questions than stop questioning and accept suppositions and vague thinking (which religion is, in my eyes). 

Again I can respect that as that is apart of the main reason I do this is the questions you ask, as I ran out of questions a long time ago. I learn more by asking the question that you all bring, so
i learn more when he answers them through me.

For instance, how do you know that the holy spirit knows everything?

he knows more than I do, which is not saying much but at the same time there is nothing I've asked that I do not get an answer for.

And who the hell is this holy spirit in the first place (no offense)?

Third embodiment of God. God is a title and not a name. As in God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the third deity in the God head. The Spirit has been tasked as our personal connection with the Father.

 I'll most likely die questioning everything,

thess 5:21 tells us to question everything and to hold on to what is good. this does not mean question only the questionable but to also question the foundational.

but to me it's better than accepting potentially false truths. And just to clear up potential misunderstandings: if this physical perceived reality ended up being fake, then I wouldn't feel that bad about it because that's all I was given, all I could base my thinking on. But if I am given the means to properly learn and I decide to stop questioning and blindly accept questionable truths, then I'll feel immensely devastated if those accepted truths turn out to be bogus.

what makes you think we would be any different? God help me if it turns out you all where right!

Just think, how would you feel if tomorrow you discovered that the hobo who gave you that revelation was a renown con artist that conned many people and ruined someone's life and you just happened to be the statistically "blessed" one? How would you feel if tomorrow you found out that all your success in life was staged and you were the protagonist of a 3rd pov movie (like "the Truman show") and you had just convinced yourself of things? Quite the "what if" scenario, but for someone who questions everything, that is included in the package.

You see, the thing is, if such thing were revealed to me, I would think nothing. I would be ready to accept that as reality as I've been questioning everything since forever, it wouldn't really be a trauma or a big surprise. It'd actually be interesting and enlightening. Don't you feel like you are risking getting destroyed by it by believing something that is potentially false? Or do you think that you've already undergone so much shit that this wouldn't bother you so much anyways (or would perhaps be a relief if anything)?

What makes you think I have not question God the church religion (all the major ones) my self my motives all of it? I know we don't have much tim in speaking specific doctrinal beliefs but I can say I am radically different in belief than most traditional catholic type of churches. I'd even say most denominational churches would have nothing to do with me. as I teach and am proud of being able to have a relationship with God most people say is no longer possible. I found him by questioning religous practices and following the God I found in the bible.

12) An invisible and untangible individual DEMANDS me to follow him. Who's this guy to make such DEMANDS?

just.. IDK God.

"Show your face, if you dare. Identify yourself, if you exist as you claim!". Are we playing hide and seek? He demands me to follow him blindly, then I demand him to show himself up, that's fair. He started it. 

again do this with anyone in authority and see if they will show up for you, nor would you expect them too.. yet a being who's power and authority exceed anyone you can think of in authority you expect to come and bow before your demands?!?! Honestly if you demanded that I do anything for you I'd tell you to buzz off. However given the right circumstance I might be inclined to help you anyway I could.

13) An answer not backed up by tangible evidence. Refer to point 4). Otherwise, in which way is he superior to us? What do we mean by superior?

su·pe·ri·or
/səˈpirēər/Submit
adjective
1.
higher in rank, status, or quality.
"a superior officer"
synonyms: higher-ranking, higher-level, senior, higher, higher-up, upper-level, upper, loftier

God created man, the creator is superior to the creation.

God is infinite in power and knowledge we are very finite.

God has the authority/power over life and death, man does not.

God offers man eternal life and love through forgiveness of sin. some men can even be bother to accept this atonement.

In this world in this realm might makes right. (like it or not) there is no a single consolidation of might and power than the alpha and omega.

14) So you are telling me that the more independent you are, the furthest you are from God? Then I'm just getting further and further from him, if he existed . My whole life I strived to become independent, strong, self-sufficient, to never need anyone's help and to always fare well on my own. If that's it, then no wonder he never showed up .

Not what I said.. I said the more you are aware the cost of everything becomes more appearant. for wisdom for example. in order to gain wisdom God does not dispatch a angel to sprinkle magic angel flakes on your head and you wake up in the morning wise. Rather God send trial and hardship your way Say being married 7 to 8 year with an active herion addict makes you street and drug wise to where you can tell by the way someone approaches you whether or not they are trying to scam you...

After enduring such trials you learn it is better to seek contentment with God rather than try and tell God what you want.. you want money?!?! here' 10,000 hours of billiable labor you can do. You want God to turn gold out of the air? then what will you breathe? as it is again not a 1:1 exchange ratio. there is always a cost. When I pray I get what I want but always know something is also owed. I'd simply rather not owe for things that really don't make life better. If I am to work I would rather work at things like family wife kids ect.

Until he begins to work in your life if you let him. if you do then you will quickly come to understand there is nothing you can do to support where he takes you, and that all you are is not your own and you are a steward of this life.

15) Basically I have to turn off my brain and go on auto-pilot? Is this what you mean? Because that's the only circumstance I can picture, which makes me question it even more so.

glob.. what I am saying is if idk you have an urge to read the bible then until you read the bible that is far as you will go. if it means ask me 1000 questions then that means those questions need to be written out.. Or if you feel you need to stop doing meth and watching donkey porn then stop doing meth and watchin donkey porn. Kind do what God puts on your heart/things you know to be right.

17) Conversely, why is life a good thing? Why is a correct move/choice a godly gift? If it's all so neutral and irrelevant, if everything is god's gift, then indeed this god is nihilistic (and in that case I wouldn't have any issue to accept an uncaring, indifferent and neutral godlike entity. It's pretty much how I see science).

frankly it isn't for everyone honestly I would like to see all the self proclaimed nihilist and neutralist before the pit and have them choose then! Then we see what they have to say.. In truth conscious life is good simply because we are self directed member of creation. better to go where you want and do what you want than to be destroyed by hell fire.
because that is this point is the only option.
Eternal life or destruction by hell fire.

18) What you describe sounds like inductive reasoning and, more specifically, like intuition. Why does it resonate with me? Because I'm an intuitive thinker. Reaching the solution of a problem with a step by step procedure was never appealing to me. It sounded too mechanical and uninteresting and boring.

I always found funny and entertaining to figure out the solution of a problem without even writing it down or following the proper procedure. It was just like seeing through it and skipping steps. Or there would be times when I read a text and didn't understand it. Then I would just distract myself, get back to it at a later time and in the meanwhile my brain had subconsciously digested the information. The second time I picked it up it was all clear as if the solution dawned upon me. I've been relying on my intuition since when I was a kid. I could sometimes appear as "lacking" when confronted with algebra (matrices ecc) or immediate deductive reasoning, where most operations were fixed and followed specific rules and paths with not many degrees of freedom, but I was just brilliant in calculus like analysing a mathematical function or finding the end result of an infinite series or integer. I didn't even need to write it down, I could just read it, see patterns, connect the points and narrow down the solution with few inductive moves. Most of my answers sounded like guesses, but I wasn't really guessing.

but again without math without algebra without formal training of any sort. and again all instantaneously I was drawing as they where describing the problem. I was finished before they were done describing what they needed and what they tried. This was truly for me an out of the blue deal.

But this isn't black magic. The feeling of "Ah damn, I can't understand this for shit" followed by "Ah fuck, it was so clear and simple all this time, why do I realize this only now?" is just a process regulated by time. The subconscious analyses what the conscious apprised during the day, digests it, and later on this information is regurgitated. 

this was for me you will need this then this then that draw this draw that then that like 20 different componets then picked up a blue pe and draew all of the 12 vdc connections. then red for 24 vdc then gree for 48vdc then orange for 230 3p 60 hz. no thouht no guessing just draw the pics I was being shown and connect the dots.

Just like there are very intuitive people that may be shit at basic operation but can see right through a target, there are immensely powerful deductive machines. People who have such concentration and discipline of mind that their brain is like a computer processor; these people don't even need to figure out the solution inductively via intuition and may as well have 0 intuition or "gut feeling", but they got so much brainpower that they just deductively process the information with such speed that they can give you the result in a short time (eg those people who can multiply huge numbers in their head like they were living calculators).

ask anyone here that's me! As I said idiot savant or God..
but you also have to consider the whole business side again operating well beyond my scope, and spiritual incite.

A computer is a strictly deductively reasoning machine. You give it an input, it builds up a procedure which is based on the input and it spits a result. However, no matter how powerful a machine can be, it has no intuition. This is why you, as human, are superior to machines. You can skip steps, you can see ahead where the computer can't reach even after 1 million steps. This is why even the most powerful chess machine at the time, deep blue, lost against chess master Kasparov (2:4).

Do not underestimate your brain. Give yourself the merits you deserve. From an intuitive thinker to another. If life for deductive people is a straight constant line, life for an intuitive thinker is like an exponential curve. It starts slowly (even slower than the straight line) and then suddenly shots to the sky. That's how it feels most of the time.

maybe.. and maybe 20 years lucky with the business as well.

Here's a line of thought.. intuitive or not idk.. but look at how you are trying to isolate and address each specific God intervened story I provide you with as a single one off event or something like the intuitive thinker thing.. but will not consider everything at once. Again if I had one story to tell it would be one thing but my whole life changed. we haven't even talked about all the health issues I have been spared from.

---

19) Oh sir, please do not misunderstand. It is not out of fear for hell that I was trying to "correct" my "lack of faith". If it was out of fear, then I wouldn't have dissed god or toyed with Satan just to make it pop out; I would have played it safe. It was because of my thirst for knowledge. I would have agreed to keep mr Satan company in hell in exchange for the truth.

It is not that I thought god was all nice and merciful, I was TOLD and TAUGHT that by nuns, priests or those hypocritical believers. If their word matters nothing and they were more clueless than me, then it means that there is a huge fog of misinformation surrounding this religion (or any religion). In this sense I am grateful to you that you clarify these things to me, even though I still remain unconvinced (as pointed before). But at least I can better tolerate the train of thought of "true" christians, probably... to a certain extent....

Most of my conversations with self-claimed christians would quickly escalate and end as soon as I questioned and provided a few arguments like I did with you, therefore leaving me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

The only reason I have answers other do not is because I would not allow an IDK or an empty space in what I believed. I always sought out the truth and followed it where it would go. Even if it meant my current understanding of God and religion had to be completely discarded AGAIn and I start over in the wind and rain with only one truth known to me in that God was indeed real and it was my task to find him.

To which I have found most Jesus Christ centered religions have enough truth in them for people to be saved but most do not know God well enough for people to establish a personal relationship with Him. That is what I wanted and had to follow God away from religion to find him.

So at the very least I thank you for answering and holding up to this conversation nicely. As you can see, bad teachers are a thing.

indeed.

20) But that's the point! If it can be already easily explained with science, and so far science worked pretty nicely, why must we involve third parties? If it's all man made and everything can be easily reconducted simply to man, why must we include additional mystical characters that have no more power than man has already shown?

I am not involving a third party. all I'm saying is just because 'we' can label/understand the process in which God works, does not take God out of the equation. it may take the magic out of the equation but nothing in the bible says God must be magic.

Just because we can identify addiction and how it works in the brain does not mean there is not a demon responsible for it. and the reason I say this is because when working with my wife I worked with hundreds of people all distinct personalities until they were under the influence of addiction and at that point they all share key common personality traits it was like they all became related or shared the same family or core values somehow. they all had the same stories they all shared the same lies they all stole from the same people. it's like they all gave control of their lives to the same intellect. Yes we can accurately predict and map addiction and chemically explain why and ever physiologically explain why, but again out labels do not exclude Spiritual influence.

You said that you've heard it already several times, that there is a scientific term for everything. My question is: why it MUST be the act of a godlike entity and not just that? Just like you ask "why it can't be god?" I ask you "Why it can't be just science?". 

For the exact same reason you know science over turns the idea of a god.. Because I know better. just like your life experience points away, my life demands an accounting of what I have seen witness and experienced. I could no more deny God than end my own life. I know God to be real because I stood before Christ Had a conversation with a messenger was sent to and experienced Hell been tried by fire forged and beaten into a position of strength and alittle authority. Therfore because I know God to be real and He is the Alpha and omega I can safely deduce that the whole of science serves to describe him and how He has set things into action.

For the latter we at least have some semi-decent degree of proof; there are several studies on the brain and how it functions but guess what, the only discipline that tries to delve more intimately in the thought process without bringing in too many sciency things, namely psychology, is not even considered hard science but more like pseudoscience.

the same can be said about the 'science of orgins' paleontology deep space astronomy and the whole host of theoretical works that can not be practically utilized.

Basically even among science disciplines there is a black sheep, a section that isn't bulletproof and still questionable but at least it's something. It's still more reasonable and acceptable.

So everything that ever was and will be in the universe was compressed into a basket ball size sphere? why cube why not polyhedron why not a 2 dimensional mass why not a bowling ball or better yet a massive super planet? and then what happened? just bang no reason/was too compressed to the oppsite happens. and everything appears. bother that is a god did it or the universe did it or the universe works in mysterious ways If I ever heard one!!! Meaning there is no difference in faith in saying big bang or god did it! how can you say one is better both are faith statements bruh!

But can you say the same for christianity or any other religion for that matter? Let's say, from a statistical point of view, from a pretty probabilistic approach, what is it more likely to be, provided the information we have at hand? 

Again, I think the main difference between us boils down to what we believe to be more probable. For me it's one thing, for you it's the other. I would say the odds favor me, but I remain open to the possibility of being wrong. What I wonder is: why is it not the same for you? 

[Jehanne]

So everything that ever was and will be in the universe was compressed into a basket ball size sphere? why cube why not polyhedron why not a 2 dimensional mass why not a bowling ball or better yet a massive super planet? and then what happened? just bang no reason/was too compressed to the oppsite happens. and everything appears. bother that is a god did it or the universe did it or the universe works in mysterious ways If I ever heard one!!! Meaning there is no difference in faith in saying big bang or god did it! how can you say one is better both are faith statements bruh!

Drich, dear, you are ignorance on parade.  The Big Bang Theory made testable predictions:

Wikipedia -- Observational Evidence of Big Bang Theory

What testable predictions does "And, God did it" make?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

So everything that ever was and will be in the universe was compressed into a basket ball size sphere? why cube why not polyhedron why not a 2 dimensional mass why not a bowling ball or better yet a massive super planet? and then what happened? just bang no reason/was too compressed to the oppsite happens. and everything appears. bother that is a god did it or the universe did it or the universe works in mysterious ways If I ever heard one!!! Meaning there is no difference in faith in saying big bang or god did it! how can you say one is better both are faith statements bruh!

Drich, dear, you are ignorance on parade.  The Big Bang Theory made testable predictions:

Wikipedia -- Observational Evidence of Big Bang Theory

What testable predictions does "And, God did it" make?

The evidence you're claiming is inconclusive and literally filled with holes.  To fill in the holes, they have proposed dark matter.  They propose that around 85 percent of the matter must be dark matter, yet nobody has been able to show any.   Seems like an exceptionally big problem.

[Jehanne]

Drich, dear, you are ignorance on parade.  The Big Bang Theory made testable predictions:

Wikipedia -- Observational Evidence of Big Bang Theory

What testable predictions does "And, God did it" make?

The evidence you're claiming is inconclusive and literally filled with holes.  To fill in the holes, they have proposed dark matter.  They propose that around 85 percent of the matter must be dark matter, yet nobody has been able to show any.   Seems like an exceptionally big problem.

This is just Nonsense on Parade:

Wikipedia -- Bullet Cluster

[T0 Th3 M4X]

The evidence you're claiming is inconclusive and literally filled with holes.  To fill in the holes, they have proposed dark matter.  They propose that around 85 percent of the matter must be dark matter, yet nobody has been able to show any.   Seems like an exceptionally big problem.

This is just Nonsense on Parade:

Wikipedia -- Bullet Cluster

That's conjecture and uses circular logic.  It doesn't demonstrate dark matter.  It assumes dark matter and uses bullet clusters to try and support that conclusion instead of using bullet clusters to prove dark matter.

If I put out a mousetrap (system), it doesn't prove there is a mouse (object) in the house.  The idea of a mouse doesn't prove the system.  The system proves the mouse by identifying it.  As such we can conclude the mousetrap as an effective system.

[Jehanne]

This is just Nonsense on Parade:

Wikipedia -- Bullet Cluster

That's conjecture and uses circular logic.  It doesn't demonstrate dark matter.  It assumes dark matter and uses bullet clusters to try and support that conclusion instead of using bullet clusters to prove dark matter.

If I put out a mousetrap (system), it doesn't prove there is a mouse (object) in the house.  The idea of a mouse doesn't prove the system.  The system proves the mouse by identifying it.  As such we can conclude the mousetrap as an effective system.

And, so, you're saying that unless physicists can weigh electrons on a scale, then, they don't have mass?  Or, their mass cannot be precisely determined?

[Drich]

That's conjecture and uses circular logic.  It doesn't demonstrate dark matter.  It assumes dark matter and uses bullet clusters to try and support that conclusion instead of using bullet clusters to prove dark matter.

If I put out a mousetrap (system), it doesn't prove there is a mouse (object) in the house.  The idea of a mouse doesn't prove the system.  The system proves the mouse by identifying it.  As such we can conclude the mousetrap as an effective system.

And, so, you're saying that unless physicists can weigh electrons on a scale, then, they don't have mass?  Or, their mass cannot be precisely determined?

What already run out of "on parade"  snappy come backs already??

The fact that there is an argument between you and another person only supports my original assertion, in that there is more faith expended in a theory like this than needed to literally make contact with God.

[polymath257]

This is just Nonsense on Parade:

Wikipedia -- Bullet Cluster

That's conjecture and uses circular logic.  It doesn't demonstrate dark matter.  It assumes dark matter and uses bullet clusters to try and support that conclusion instead of using bullet clusters to prove dark matter.

If I put out a mousetrap (system), it doesn't prove there is a mouse (object) in the house.  The idea of a mouse doesn't prove the system.  The system proves the mouse by identifying it.  As such we can conclude the mousetrap as an effective system.

Wrong. It compares a modified theory of gravity to the one with standard gravity and dark matter. The modified theory of gravity was initially proposed as an alternative to using dark matter to explain the rotation curves of galaxies and the dynamics of galactic clusters. But, when applied to the Bullet Cluster, it was found that the gravitational lensing and the distribution of 'ordinary' mass simply didn't correlate. Even under modified gravity, *some* sort of dark matter is required to explain the observations.

So, yes, indeed, these observations *do* demonstrate dark matter. Together with some of the observations of the CMBR, we can have very specific, testable statements concerning the properties of dark matter.

The only issue at present is what subatomic particles are present in dark matter, not the existence of dark matter itself.

[Scientia]

@Drich
I'll wait for the second half of your responses before posting the megawall of replies, but I'll anticipate that there seem to be extraordinarily large gaps in your knowledge, as far as the sciency side of things is concerned. And it's not just that abomination of chemistry example you made. 

One of your last quotes in particular makes it evident that you have a warped image of science, as if scientists were a cult believing in some obscure conjecture which was based on nothing, equating faith in religion with "faith" in science. 

But again, I'll wait for the complete thing before addressing each point. Till then, I'll be lurking in the shadows.

[Drich]

21) I don't know, this section sounds as if you somehow agree with what I wrote before about limitations. In this paragraph you seem aware you don't have any intrinsic limitations. Of course life can present all kind of restrictions (eg abusive parents, nasty bosses, nasty people in general who try to block and hinder you, or life circumstances where you are physically blocked), but deep inside you don't really have any instrinsic limitations. Given enough freedom, you can unleash your potential. That's what I meant.

Your belief as I understand it. We set our own limitations. My statement I have never limited myself however at the time when I could bearly read my limits were set by society in the way of not many high paying jobs for people who can not read. Meaning it is evident that both are true. one can limit themselves and soceity can place limits on you.

Again, This is my telling, doubting thomas need and got to put his hands in the wounds of Christ. That's the whole point to my telling of my story is to relay to you that God is willing to do the same type of thing for me as he is willing to do for you. Now Imagine how much doubt I have after living though all of that. which is why it is Said He is willing to cast a mountain of doubt into the ocean if you can simply generate a mustardseeds worth of faith. again we expend more faith in global warming than what is needed for God to work a life as he has mine.

22) Refer to 4)

and again if an important person in this world will not meet you on your own terms then why expect God to meet you on your terms.. who are you to demand God perform tricks for you?

If you read the OP of that story I make the point you just made in that it is not about where the angel came from as it is more about the origins of the message and of they ring true or not. You are focused on the material man to determine authenticity when in truth a messenger is nothing without the message. let's say you met the angel that told marry she was going to have Jesus.. real deal guy. for you there is no doubt who this fella is, but he has nothing to say to you. now let put you in front of your computer at home in your current situation bang out doubt insulsts and the like.. then you come across one of GC posts that while you dismiss cuts you to your quick, you know what is being said may be a generic quip for GC but speaks to you directly to the point you almost feel bad or a conviction as if God were indeed calling you. I ask you now who is the angel who is the messenger God sent? The guy who spoke to marry or the guy who deep down has pierced your heart in some way?

At the time my idea of angels were not dirty homeless black men. but the message rang 100% true, the fact I spoke to in in thought shook me to no end, the fact he recited special prayers I prayed in secrete shook me to my core, the very wrds I used to pray for me and another person almost had me stop driving. this man not only pierced my heart with out a word of who I was or what I was about He knew me eve if I could not fully recognise him today 

23) Lol, was this really what it looked like with GC post? Then I'll correct your misunderstanding: GC was the easiest post to dismiss because it dismissed itself on its own by saying "I won't reply back". In spite of this, I still played by his rules because I like games and I don't mind overkill, and so I replied to his weak points, to which I naturally received no answer. More than "pierced my heart" it never hit the target to begin with. It just reminded me of one of psychforums user, Rob K, who used to drop random non-sensical and disconnected replies in every thread to later edit his posts with a dot ".". (P.S. I didn't remember the guy's nick so I went back to that forum and re-read some of my ancient posts from 7y ago and I was delighted in seeing that my thought process has been consistent throughout these years after the realization I had at 21. I'd say that was the most important period of my life: when I realized that nothing matters).

Glob take GC out of the equasion and plug in huggy CL or me. The point is NOT WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH!!!! BUT THE MESSAGE Read what I wrote again. If literal angel of God made himself know to you and had nothing to say to you he would literally be less of an angel if one of us brought you a message that cut you to your quick.
trying to get you to look outside the box in how the Holy Spirit sends messages to you.

did you miss the bit about being consumed by Hell fire? did you miss the part where it illicites the same response as if being burned? that eventually it consumes the soul or at least the part that holds together out sanity?

24) Reconnecting to point 10), so there is some sort of physical pain/discomfort associated with this hellfire? Or it's just what you personally felt at the realization that he ignored/didn't love you? I mean, it doesn't sound such a big deal for an intangible, invisible individual to not love you :/

there is an initial panic of disolving into hell, then the oh, my God this panic is going to be forever... Then but I know I belong here because I do not fit in with he love in Heaven then it was I know I belong here but would I have done anything different if I had known the truth? Could I have been apart of that love, that was going to be the thing that ate my sanity.. I know I belong but did I need to be here was I truly evil? That part I did not know and that part is why I answer questions so that you know.. again the hell fire was sheer removal from clam rational thought an instant conversion to primal guttural responses that gave way to fore your mind to the forefront to try and think through this just to be crushed by the idea of infinity. once your sanity is gone then it really doesn't matter what happens to the rest of you as what makes you you is consumed by the fire. I think however this process of being consumed by the fire takes longer the more wicked you are.

till your eye glasses broke.. 

26) Ahah, it reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKgjahj-3qg

Something like that however My mind went to the orginal

more or less. in those days inorder to marry in or become a member of the famly you wrkes first as a slave. same kinda of thing here. We are saved from sin which makes us members or citizens f heaven, but the great reward comes if you serve and become a son of God.

27) Then I refuse to serve someone who doesn't even bother to show up after "demanding".

So you would not work for anyone who did not serve your need to be the authority? maybe you could open up a coffee shop.

So here is exactly what I meant about faith in science and how it takes less faith for belief in God.,, Now to you since 2018 the hole narritive has taken a sharp change in that now there was never a hole. when in 85 when the were selling the taxes that would save us there was a definate hole.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...eclining1/

28) I wasn't even born in '85, but it's not like the understanding of the average citizen about these thematics has improved much. I said it before, I chose chemistry as my discipline because it's the scientific subject that most closely helps you understand reality at its very basic level. Chemists are the bastards behind the scenes that help big companies put leverage on natural phenomenons to gain some (economical) advantage. I'll reveal you some "secret" about the industry of electric cars or hydrogen cars: there is no such thing as "clean" energy as they advertise it. It is true that electric cars do not pollute, but where do you think you get electricity? Yes, you burn coal. You just displaced the polluting source. It is true that burning hydrogen only produces water and so it is safe. But how do you get hydrogen? You burn methane. You just moved the polluting source out of your customer's eyes. 

yeah kinda had that discussion with a brother in law 20 years ago when he bough one of the first hybrids. concerning the process in making batteries and then plugging into a coal fire electrical grid who down time was at nigh which if everyone bought a pos electric car would never have an off peak time. You were trading one form of pollution for two or three others.

One of my professors even boasted about his success because he defended in a court trial a nasty factory that was polluting a river, and he won because he made some leverage on the weak points of the accuse. He knew his stuff. When you have to deal with this kind of people, all the nice and ideal world they advertise on TV just disappears. But I am grateful to these nasty individuals, because in the attempt to "form" us they also teach us how it really functions out there. Just like global warming was always a thing but it was overexagerated here and there for some profit. 

agree. once they saw the trillions coming out of the ozone thing they sought out the next sky is falling money maker.. "Carbon credits" was a tax they were going to push to save the world from global warming. To be worked like bit coin, guess who held the reserve of credits... Mr. Al Gore Himself.

I don't know in which country you live, but here they banished gasoline containing lead compounds and the reason given was "because lead is toxic". Do you want to know which was the real reason? "It was too expensive to maintain, it's easier the other way". But when you have to take out something from the market, you need a strong reason, a strong driving force and so you embellish the reason to make the transition easier and more painless. The industry, first and foremost, cares about the profit. No one gives a shit about people safety.

yes agree here as well.

If there is a thing I learnt, is that there is always an equilibrium. If something is too good to be true, then it's most likely that. But to discover such things, I think you need to be inside "it" or have someone who is together with the nasties.

Its a simple pattern. Find a hungry scientist 'fund' him to find whatever it is you need. They will always find proof, make people aware documentry or movie or even social media now, 'lobby' politicians/Pay them to make a stink change policy reap billions because of market shift.

repeat.

Here's the thing with "higher learning' Most people here on this web site will only accept information if it comes filter through certain sources we in school been trained to recognise that is why the 2016 campaign keep blaming hillary's non land slide victory to uneducated people. because all the indoctrinated pro clinton material was being provided by these accepted sources and she still lost. meaning dumb people were not smart enough to blindly believe everything we were being told. This structure of transmitting and receiving 'public knowledge' is ingrained into us by 'higher learning' facilities. Facilities that demand we think the same way that we reason the same way that demand we share common morality and values, and yes demand we hate anything not up to our standards. That is why anything with the 'science' frame work around it is believed as absolute truth. I was on board in 85 to 93, but then I saw what it was about. they took a product off the market that sold for .50 a pound and at the end of the production run because this country desperately needed a refrigerant that the one company who sponsored the global initiative who found the hole in the OZone who sold the old stuff and produced the new, was able to sell a .50 12 oz can for 300.00 then sell the new stuff for 150.00

Now FF 20 year and the patents have now run out on the new stuff that sell for 6.00 a 12 oz can just like the patents on the old stuff ran out in 93. Now the new stuff has been found to dramatically increases the global warming effect and must now also be bann so we can not pay 400 to 600 dollars for a 12 oz can of refrigerant.

Duponte scientist said it it must be true..

Did you watch the movie the fox catcher? it was about how f-ing crazy the CEO of duponte was in the 1980's but also how smart and the fact he had so much money he literally owned everythig around him. This is his scam played out by governments now.

then you would be most likely responsible to see the crack head die inside of a week of a overdose.

29) Nope. Everyone is responsible for his own demise. It may be a "strong" way to put it, but "the weak deserves to die so the strong may flourish" or "the weak deserve their fate" or any variation of this phrase. And I will accept it if, one day, I'll take the fall because I wasn't fit enough. That's how it should be.

Give a monkey a gun and if he shoots someone it is not the monkey's fault. In turn give a crack head a million dollars and he OD's in a week you indeed killed him. Someone like that has no internal control anymore the demon of addiction has taken control, and it will make them use till the money or their breath runs out.

the law, if you are not save and whether or not you have accepted the atonement offered.

30) What does the atonement consist in? For example, you said that 
On the simple side it is praying "Dear lord I know I am a sinner/broken your laws, and I know I will continue to do so for the rest of my life however I ask that you forgive me of my sins again you and my fellow man any way. Then as a start you must live out this example of forgiving those who sin against you. This make take a while if you have an a-hole father as I do, but over time try and forgive those as if it where you who needed forgivness. the rest will come over time. Meaning trying to resist or abstaining from sin will be something you will eventually want to do even if you can't. That is call repentance. where you internally hate sin even if you are still tied to it. Paul explains this in much better detail in romans chapters 6,7 and 8

tell that to the illiterate who just magical began to pick it up.. As it says in scripture you do not need a teacher as the very one (the holy Spirit) who wrote the scriptures also instructs you. all you need is the bible
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ERV

You don't need commentary. God will give you what you can handle as you read it. Meaning a cursory read through will most likely draw out major contrasts between your version of God and the God of the bible/you will want to point out contradictions as you see them. This is seeking God. take those contradictions to me or one like me and pray "dear god help me figure out the truth amen" till you find something that jives.

31) But I had already taken that route way back then, when I could have been the most inclined to buy in that story.

and you tested the god you found and got back total silence. so then you rebuild have that verion of God tested and you rebuild. not every verion will be 100% wrong, so you hold on to what is right and rebuild everything else. I'd say in side a year you could have a good working understanding of Who god is and how he works.

I even went to one of my professor's house twice a week because I wanted him to properly teach me christianity, not like those lazy guys at the afterschool, and he was very moderate and decent in his teachings without overdoing it. But the more he taught me, the less I was inclined to buy it. Then I tried reading it on my own and I was still unconvinced. It just looked like "administer good sense" sort of general advice. Afterwards I stepped up my game and I went ahead with my homemade summoning rituals (lol), then tried other ways but in the end nothing happened (and it's not really surprising me now).

we are supposed to fail alot. because what we are doing is pealing away the personal I want a god who does... and are left with the God described in scripture.

Also, I clicked on that link you provided but it just narrates the story of Jesus. I already know that. I was taught that in school, then I saw some documentary about it, there were movies about it, parodies about it. I think I assimilated that story in all kind of variations and what's written in that website isn't any different from what I already know. And it remained a story. The same story I remembered. Did I overlook something important?

Jesus does tell us how to obtain the Holy Spirit He tells us the difference between petition and prayer he shows us it is the Holy Spirit that empowers Him and will also be sent to us to give us more than what even he was able to do.

EXTRA question:

Since I think you can provide me a clarification like you did before, I have some questions that were always answered vaguely:
1) Why God put an apple tree in the Eden in the first place? [/quote] Not free will (that is a late 1200 greek construct/philosophy but to give us choice yes the bible/ God sees us as slaves to him or sin but even slaves had choice. The tree was choice to be in (not the city of heaven but to be in his presence/heaven or to serve a master of sin who promises complete freedom but only dilivers pain and suffering. Imagine that God created Adam and eve right after the earth was formed 100 bazzillion years or go or whatever 'science says now.' and he planted the seeds that would later become the oceans land animals plants birds and even man outside the garden. But inside the garden God created a paradise that would resemble what the world would evolve into about (6000 or so years ago) Why then? because God knew that was when the fall was going to be. Yes he would loose Adam and eve but because he planted those seeds the people from the garden would have a world and better yet a people to bless with souls when their kids and their kids kids had children. To one day populate the world with people with souls. So that the may all experience sin. So when it came time to make the choice Eve made (but in reverse/she was alive with God and died, and we in sin are dead to God but choose to live) we would not be courious about sin and could choose (if we chose God) without question or reservation. We could enter heaven and have our sin curiosity quota filled.

So why do this and why not make a race of people in heaven? He did that already with the angels. and over 1/3 of them fell surcombing to sin. lucifer's temptation being too great. So it is written we will live in a place with God for 1000 years. (all of the saved) then satan will be let loose one more time to temp the saved one more time to give those who changed their minds about serving God an way out. Then he and those who want to go with him will be seal in hell for ever. Again it is and it always is about choosing To be with God.

Adam and Eve were given this choice created to be immortal and living with God potentially for billions if not trillions of years before temptation ate them alive, to the point they died from their imortal lives and was given over to the pain and suffering of life outside the garden. This life for us is about the same choice, and we will get a third chance in the next. In short God wants to ensure those who seek to spend eternity with him want to be there under his rule and grace. because eternity is a long long time.

Like ok, you created Adam and Eve and put them in Eden and you tell them they can do whatever they want but they have to stay away from the apple tree. Why not put some fence around it if it was so precious? Why show them the apple tree at all? Also, apple is one of the most boring fruits, they probably wouldn't have even considered it at all if God didn't tell them about it. It's like asking a kid "don't press this giant red button". 

Imagine it was not an apple tree but just forbidden fruit. that could have been a metaphor for even sex. We don't know. but we do know they were given a 'garden' 2/3 the size of North america to explore and find adventure in. which is probably why it took them so long to finally give in.

Then you said that God gives each according to their ability: didn't he foresee that they would have been tempted by his prohibition? It's like he got what he asked for. To me it looks like he just wanted to find an excuse to mess up with them.

I think you don't get that it was the plan all along for the fall. why else plant man outsie the garden?

2) What do Hell, Purgatory

purgatory I found out was a religious construct and has no bearing in scripture. Turns out the R/C church was selling such a hard nose legalistic version of salvation no one saw themselves as 'good enough' so people started to giving up so purgatory was a stop gap measure to try and save those who mean well but can't quite cut the mustard. In truth there is no purgatory according to the bible, Jesus or the Apostles. In truth Christ divides us or looks at us and our thoughts and intentons/everything and makes a right honest fair judgement. The church back then took this power for themselves and made salvation conditional on everything they wanted.. including money owed, days you could miss, if you were tasked to build a new church out of pocket or the like. A good man who tried but died or failed needed a way to pay for failing but would ultimatly wind up in heaven, that is what pugatory is.

Hell is the grave or the pit or the destruction of the soul. Hell is the eternal imprisionment of Satan, everyone and everything else is destroyed by hell at some point or another. Again I thin the more evil you are the longer your torment but that is my view not the bible.

and Paradise represent exactly?

Paradise refers to the garden of eden which the muslims have taken for their after life while we and God as said to inhabbit a new heaven and a new earth after the resurrection and final judgement.

If they are not the grotesque depictions of Dante, then what are they exactly? 

ever watch a log being consumed and slowly broken down by a hot hot fire and coals till it is ash? that is hell for us. The log goes in whole and after a few mins the whole thing is still hold but blacked with ash where the fire begins to penetrate the wood and bark then the next stage the wood itself begins to burn where as before the fire heat and flames came from the outside burning inwards, but now at this stage the wood is cracking around it's edges and the flames are beginning to take hold in the out edges of the wood. next the log is fully involved meaning even if you took the log out of the fire the fire on the log would still burn, at this point the log is going to burn up no matter what, the big crack become scales while the bright light of the fire has died down the truly hot white/blue flames break the log down into scales and coal then those embers can go out or be stoked for the next log. Hell is a sentient version of that log.

- You already mentioned that Hell is like not feeling loved by god but at the same time it burns (physical burn?)

the absence of the love you know was offered is just apart of the regret that later consumes and destroys the mind. the idea of so much pain when you felt God's love and you know that could have been foreve makes you turn on yourself for being placed here.

- What is purgatory exactly then? Like, can you get out of hell and be promoted to purgatory, or once you get thrown there that's it? And if Purgatory is a place where to atone for the little sins you did, how do you atone exactly? Like, you just wait in a queue (like at the post office)? I always pictured purgatory as the post office queue.

see above

- What is heaven? Dante's depiction was so boring that I think I would have gone insane there. Hell may have been grotesque and weird but at least it sounded more fun than post-office-purgatory or boring-ass heaven. And once you arrive there, are you met by this old dude and sit on a cloud sofa or what? Can you watch TV? Play games? Eat pizza? Eat your lover? A heaven without those is as appealing as hell.

The universe stretches out forever we have forever... I believe the sons those who work as slaves and are trusted and becomes sons get to go out and each given to his ability.. to one an asteroid maybe to another a planet to develop or maybe to another a whole region of space.. or maybe we are given star ships and told to go explore. The bible does not say much but I know there is a reason for an infinite universe and an infinity amount of time to go and do. If adam and eve lasted billions of years in 2/3 the size of the USA how much more will there be for us to do and accomplish?

3) Please watch this 7 min video and tell me what you think about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E15IC3YKv8g 
It is clearly meant to be an analogy to the christian god, but done in a somewhat provocative way. I think you can give me an honest opinion without feeling offended or attacked. Our conversation has been going on for a while, so I think we sorted that stuff out already 

honestly it's a straw man Senerio. Remember when I said you built a version of God tested it and it proved it self to not be there? was that God's fault? this guy has gone off the rails. 1 Christianity is not about 'morality'/be good enough and go to heaven/be bad and go to hell.

This is why this video is straw man version of reality, because none of the ants had knowledge of God. this poor man assumes this is true for all of us. At the end the ants going into the oven were oblivious to everything going on while even to this guy if God is silent his word is not other wise he would know nothing of the over the words placed on tiny tablets the need or desire to not murder or wear cloths. The narrator is more aware of his God than the ants are yet he hides this fact in his straw man by making himself/us out to be ant but are unaware.

Let's say the ants where aware and 1/2 say the provider and did what was asked.. the other 1/2 hated the 'sell outs and demanded they simply remains ants and pretend they hear nothing. would it not then be provider's duty to then separate the ants? the one's who obey from those who do not? Would it not then be right to reward the faithful and punish the wicked? The analogy is crap because it does not closely follow the relationship it is trying to mock. this poor guy's idea of God is so far off outside of the idea of hell which is not exclusively christian there really is nothing of note being discussed unique christian.

I wish I could do videos man I would knock them out of the park.

If you want an analogy let's say the world every man woman and child is or has been infected with a legit A+B zombie virus not a destroy the brain but have to burn the body or any meaty part is comming for you and will trigger the undead cycle. meanig in this case the zombie virus is split and every person carries a "a" part of the virus and or a "b" part. So when A's die they seek bs and when "B"s die the seek A's. if you touch a blood being a b or b blood being an a or get bit or any type of a/b transfer (even close procimit coughing would cause the zombification process meaning a high fever causing brain partial death leaving only primal need to reproduce virus) hence bitting and bleeding

So a' and b's have to be separate.


Now lets say it's been a few years and a vaccine is found that neutralizes just an a virus or just b, but if the two sides can come together before the vaccine and you get the combined blood you are zombie even if you had the vaccine for a or the b.

so FF 10 more years and a huge ultra modern city is built with huge walls, but out side it is still dangerous because supplies are low and A's are wandering into B territory looking for food and spawning zombies.. So that makes "the good people of both a and b group" want to enter this new city but the deal is you must take this vaccine. Which turns out to be the literal blood of the guy who built the city.. Say it was trump, and all you had to do to qualify to live in this new city was that you had to take this trump shot, but before you could, you must first openly honor and take a pledge to him and the city to work as a slave under him in this new city for an unspecified amount of time. most of which was going out into a or b land (being immune to either of the seperatly seeking people to join the city life.)

Recap:
So A blood plus b blood= Zombie
A's live in one 1/2 of the country and B's live in the other 1/2
Enter vaccine
A+ vaccine= ok to mix with b blood=vaccine This means A and B can co mingle safely again.
So A's and B's create a mega city in the middle of the country.

however:
if Zombie A and Zombie b mix before vaccine= can still infect vaccine a or b. Meaning a full on zombie can infect anyone even if they have the vaccine for a or b, which means people in the city can go out an co mingle with non vaccinated people but non vaccinated people can not come in the mega city

Now in this reality this shot.. is not contingent on who you where out side the city walls what you had o do to survive, whether you were a good a or a bad b or vise versa.. It's primary requirement is that you are not carring both a and b (been zombified but not dead yet/in the terms of Christianity sin loving evil person) and that you are wiling to pledge to follow trump law going forward and you take part in serve in what he is building.

But douche bag you tubers who only get their information 4th person from someone who heard trumps actual message when they were 4 th grade, feel like the truth is trump is looking for moral "A"s in B land and douche bag youtubers say trump is looking for moral "B"s in A land. meaning looting stealing and basic survival stuff keeps you from entering the city... Then there are As and Bs who simply hate trump with all that they are. and also hate anyone who dare take his blood.

So Fast forward 10 more years and now no truth is left outside the walls. all who would take the vaccine have and drove the truth tellers away, and all that is left are those who hate trump and his city dewellers. All the while The hords chip away a city moral stating they should not have to take the oath that they should not have to be immunized they say they trumps rule is unfair and racist that it is against human nature to work under one person's vision or plan that it is not fair trump will not come to me directly and personally excuse me from all the BS everyone else has to do and on and on and on with what they feel like they are entitled to despite their lack of most basic efforts in trying to simply become a member of the city. So now both A's and B's are in close proxcimity to one another just outside the city walls. no one has kicked off the zombie outbreak yet but it is just a matter of time before they do.

To the people out side they are doing some stupid hippy style occupy wall street protest, when in truth they are incubating a world wide pandemic of uncontrolled zombie outbreak/evil, which is where we stand now. To which the only answer for those inside is Hell fire to cleanse away the hord.. But that is not what the horde see they see "The infected" wanting in the safe zone. citing their post fall of man pop-morality as being 'good enough' reason to allow them in, when in fact morality has nothing to do with it but everything to do with the blood of Christ and if you have it or not. whether or not you carry the virus or have been vaccinated!