FFRF is pissing off Ham and the Christians..... again.

[brewer]

Got to fight the repression and persecution. Poor, poor christians.

[LostLocke]

So when people do things that are illegal, other people should just mind their own business?  Interesting worldview you've got there, Max.

He probably belongs to that camp of...

If a town is caught putting undue restrictions and regulations on guns they come forth with "You can't do that, it's against the Constitution!"
But, if a town government is caught organizing and funding a blatantly religious trip they tell the people who caught them "Why don't you people MYOB?"

[Brian37]

Bullsh*t!

---

I know you hate the fact that atheists exist, but saying government should stay out of religion, is not a call to ban religion.

And I already pointed out to you dictators who USED religion to gain support. BOTH Stalin and Hitler used the support of their respective Christian populations to gain and keep power.

Authoritarianism is about silencing all dissent, but Authoritarians like any dictatorship, will use any support they can to keep power, including the religious.

---

Cuba is a Communist country right?

Well, will you look at this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=churches...66&bih=657

Looks like Stalin had some Christian fans himself.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHB...ak6A9aLCa0


Looky here. Even Hitler is shaking hands with the clergy.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHB...9rluC79vXI

Like I said, authoritarianism is about absolute power, not religion itself. If Martin Luther King Jr, or Malala for that matter with the attitudes of empathy they all had/have grew up in those countries, they'd be persecuted along with me.

All those dictatorships still had plenty of religious people who supported the ideas of those monsters.  SEE LINKS ABOVE.

Now let me make this clear for you. I am an atheist. But I have absolutely NOTHING in common with dictators like Hitler or Stalin or Castro. Nor do the people at FFRF.

Secular does not mean anti religion, it merely means anti "sectarian" pro neutral.

Never once have I ever heard any one of their staff  ever call for a forced end to any religion. I am quite sure every one of their staff is for freedom of religion, and your ability to attend a privately owned place of worship. I am quite sure they would never call for burning down the estimated privately owned 360,000 houses of worship of all religions and sects in America.

Now please stop making yourself look like a fool.

Back to telling me what I think.  I don't "hate" atheists or "hate" that they choose to be atheists.  It's their choice and I imagine that if they are, then they have a reason for believing that way.  What I don't like is when you get select ones pandering and/or suggesting others are dumb for having a different perspective.  Or suggesting that "science" somehow favors them.

It is possible to be intelligent and delusional and dead wrong all at the same time.

Seriously, how do you want me to respond to old mythology? 

I love my late mother, but if she went around claiming the Chicago Cubs beat the Philadelphia Eagles in the NHL Stanley Cup and Apollo was the MVP, and kept repeating that every day, and truly believed it, she could have had a PHD and that claim would still irritate me to the point of wanting to say, "Um no, that is garbage."

And yes science is running way from the idea that a super cognition fills in the gap, and?  The long term trend has been that something to have been claimed to have a super natural cause, ends up scientific method ends up finding a natural explanation.

Now again, I am sorry you don''t want to face that someone sold you old mythology. I am sorry you don't want to face that it is merely a claim that fills your desire to be infinite, and is really nothing more that our species reflection of their own qualities.

And exactly what "pandering" are we doing here? There is no pandering to you if you agree with me Thor and Apollo are not real. You'd agree with that wouldn't you? Your problem is that you refuse to apply the same logic you use to rightfully reject claims of Apollo and Thor, and apply that same logic and aim it at your own claims.

It isn't going to kill you to accept that you are not infinite, and there is no afterlife just like you had no pre life. It isn't going to kill you to accept that our species is not the center of the planet or the universe. You can still live a good life and be non violent, and have empathy and compassion for others. 

It was understandable in antiquity, that humans made bad guesses and formed the religions of the world when they didn't know any better, but that was then, this is now. Most humans simply buy what society and or their parents sell them long before they can develop critical thinking skills. 

It is within our species psychology to trust, especially parents growing up. We also as a species have far more of a tendency to defend that which is local and that which we are familiar with. Humans have a hard time with questioning social norms when it comes to what the local society believes. Humans don't like having their social norms challenged. But if our species never questioned social norms, our species never would have left the caves.

Again, how do you want me to respond to old claims made by humans who didn't have benefit of modern knowledge?  Because it isn't going to be "That's nice". You might as well be claiming Santa is real, and truly believe it at the age of say 65. 

Nothing I typed here is about human rights. You have the right to claim Yoda is real too, and my response would also be the same, "No, sorry, Yoda is a fictional character."

---

Max,

You are simply having a reaction to someone saying "That is not true", the term for that is "cognitive dissonance'. The person telling you that something is not true isn't trying to do anything more than trying to correct your error.

Instead of Christianity, Jewish, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, the world was full of  "Star Wars, Star Trec, Harry Potter, Lord Of The Rings" believers. Would the popularity of those constitute evidence for any of those fictional characters being  real? Or should one rightfully say that those are simply popular fictions?

Most of our species also believed wrongfully, that the earth was flat too.

If you can rightfully accept that Thor is not the cause of lightening, and Poseidon is not the cause of Hurricanes and Venus is not the cause of love, then it should be quite easy to accept that the universe is not the product of a fictional magical factory boss like Willy Wonka.

[bennyboy]

It wasn't a "religious event."  It was a field trip.  Bunch of idiots whining about others going out and doing something.  It would've been a "religious event" if the government said they had to go and accept what was shared.

Never been to the Museum, probably won't ever go, but if I ever choose to and some nutty whackjob group told me I couldn't go, they wouldn't like what would come next.  Same thing if I wanted to visit an atheist church.  I would decide, not let someone tell me I can't because their feelings might get hurt.

I tell ya, these nutty atheist groups and going to get us all enslaved with their constant badgering everybody and trying to tell "We the People" what to think.  We can think for ourselves.

Also, please don't assume this is being suggested at all atheists.  There are many that are kind and don't spread this mindless hate garbage.

Nobody said anybody couldn't go see Ham's goofy museum. They said the town shouldn't be using government resources to promote a religion by making an official trip.

[Phoque]

For the theists who are defending this, how would you feel if the same local government decided to pay for a trip to Mecca or host Divali ceremonies, but then not do the same for Easter or Christmas or Passover?

[polymath257]

For the theists who are defending this, how would you feel if the same local government decided to pay for a trip to Mecca or host Divali ceremonies, but then not do the same for Easter or Christmas or Passover?

I was pondering the response to a government paying for a trip to the local Satanist statue. I doubt they would like that one.

[SteelCurtain]

The First Amendment and a wagonload of case precedent is communism now?

He's not arguing in good faith, and he knows it. It's bordering on trolling at this point.

Over and over and over again courts have ruled that governments cannot endorse religion. This would have been one of those cases, open and shut, and the town recognized it and avoided the cost.

Let him address the constitutionality, and we'll be able to look at him without derision.

[Jackalope]

Just bordering?

[T0 Th3 M4X]

For the theists who are defending this, how would you feel if the same local government decided to pay for a trip to Mecca or host Divali ceremonies, but then not do the same for Easter or Christmas or Passover?

Would be fine if that's what they chose, but should also be willing to do it for Passover.  Same standard all around.

---

It wasn't a "religious event."  It was a field trip.  Bunch of idiots whining about others going out and doing something.  It would've been a "religious event" if the government said they had to go and accept what was shared.

Never been to the Museum, probably won't ever go, but if I ever choose to and some nutty whackjob group told me I couldn't go, they wouldn't like what would come next.  Same thing if I wanted to visit an atheist church.  I would decide, not let someone tell me I can't because their feelings might get hurt.

I tell ya, these nutty atheist groups and going to get us all enslaved with their constant badgering everybody and trying to tell "We the People" what to think.  We can think for ourselves.

Also, please don't assume this is being suggested at all atheists.  There are many that are kind and don't spread this mindless hate garbage.

Nobody said anybody couldn't go see Ham's goofy museum.  They said the town shouldn't be using government resources to promote a religion by making an official trip.

It's not promoting religion.  It's promoting freedom.  If people want communism, then they should live in a communist country.  We, on the other hand, are a democracy.

[LostLocke]

It's not promoting religion.  It's promoting freedom. 

No it's not. Who said you don't have the freedom to go there? If you want to go, go. The government isn't stopping you.