Mixed sex handshakes banned in somalia

[Skipper]

That's true, but there could be something that happens in the brain or in the heart which God is aware of even though we don't feel it ourselves (after giving a handshake to the opposite gender).

More stupidity! Why aren't you worried that a woman will "feel something" when she sees a man walking down the street? Why are women the only ones forced to wear sacks over their heads? Men should wear them as well! Otherwise, women could see an attractive man and "feel something"!

I asked this before and you never answered. Why don't men have to wear sacks over their heads? Why just the women?

Because it would be hard to be offended by things all the time and declare fatwas on people if they had a sack on their heads? Because it would be hard to stone innocent people to death for doing things they don't agree with? Because Islam was created by a man, for men to control and be in a position of power over women, homosexuals and non believers?

But in all seriousness that is a good question.

Also, why does god give us an obvious natural desire to find the opposite sex attractive, give us all the feelings and emotions that come a long with contact with others we find attractive then say it's wrong to feel those feelings and that women should hide themselves in big sacks or avoid contact with men and feel guilty about what god himself gave them? I know you're going to say it's all a test...but seriously think about why a supposedly all powerful, infinite and all loving god would go to such petty lengths to test peoples faith in him. Then consider that the lengths of pettiness we are talking about in this instance and other "tests" your lord sets you are very much a man made trait that we humans possess but I doubt very much the creator of all things would need to worry about.

[Thor]

Also, why does god give us an obvious natural desire to find the opposite sex attractive, give us all the feelings and emotions that come a long with contact with others we find attractive then say it's wrong to feel those feelings and that women should hide themselves in big sacks or avoid contact with men and feel guilty about what god himself gave them?

This is a great point. I'm guessing Rayaan will either ignore this question or make up some crap in a feeble attempt to explain and rationalize it.

[Rayaan]

More stupidity! Why aren't you worried that a woman will "feel something" when she sees a man walking down the street? Why are women the only ones forced to wear sacks over their heads? Men should wear them as well! Otherwise, women could see an attractive man and "feel something"!

I asked this before and you never answered. Why don't men have to wear sacks over their heads? Why just the women?

I'll give a short answer to your question, but I'll elaborate on this in a separate thread in a few days later in which I'll discuss the topic of gender issues in Islam.

The answer is that both men and women are told to dress modestly when they go outside and not to show off their beauty (according to the Quran). And there's a verse in the Quran which specifically tells women to "draw over their veils (khimar)" so that it covers their chest as well (in Surah 23:41). That's why many of the Muslim women will cover their face and body as a way of obeying this command. In another verse, it says:

"O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." (Surah 33:59)

However, I should also point out that the headcover was something that was wore by women in Arabia before Islam, and this implies that there is a cultural root in wearing the headcover, not only Islamic. The only difference was that they wouldn't cover their chests and thus revealing a part of their bodies (i.e. the chest). So that's why the Quran is asking women to take their headcover and to use it to cover their chests as well. Also, there are varying opinions on the importance of wearing the veil. Some of the scholars say that it is compulsory (fard) to wear it while others believe that it is only recommended (mustahab) in Islam.

Now the question is, why don't the men have to wear a sack over their heads? The answer is simply because the men and women are not the same biologically, intellectually, and emotionally as Allah says in the Quran, "wa laysa zakaru kal unsa" ("the male is not like the female"). And that's why there are certain differences in the requirements between the two genders.

In Islam, men have their own roles and women have their own roles. Men have been given a role that they are more capable of doing, and women have been given a role that they are more capable of doing. Neither of these roles is inherently better than the other or "looked down" upon in Islam. For a Muslim, equality is a religious and spiritual equality which means that when we do good deeds, whether a male or a female, we are both rewarded equally. And this is the meaning of equality in Islam. Women have to prove their worth in the sight of Allah, not in the sight of men. And the same goes for men.

See the two links below for more explanation on the reasons for wearing the hijab (or veil) and it's historical and religious applications:

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/2770/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/...ab_1.shtml

[Minimalist]

Also, why does god give us an obvious natural desire to find the opposite sex attractive, give us all the feelings and emotions that come a long with contact with others we find attractive then say it's wrong to feel those feelings and that women should hide themselves in big sacks or avoid contact with men and feel guilty about what god himself gave them?

This is a great point. I'm guessing Rayaan will either ignore this question or make up some crap in a feeble attempt to explain and rationalize it.

Good call, Thor. Do you stock tips as well?

[The Omnissiunt One]

Now the question is, why don't the men have to wear a sack over their heads? The answer is simply because the men and women are not the same biologically, intellectually, and emotionally as Allah says in the Quran, "wa laysa zakaru kal unsa" ("the male is not like the female"). And that's why there are certain differences in the requirements between the two genders.

There's something suspect about the logic here.

Premise 1) Women have different naughty bits to men.
Premise 2) (from 1) Women are therefore different from men.
Conclusion: Therefore, women must wear sacks over their heads and men don't have to.

[Rayaan]

There's something suspect about the logic here.

Premise 1) Women have different naughty bits to men.
Premise 2) (from 1) Women are therefore different from men.
Conclusion: Therefore, women must wear sacks over their heads and men don't have to.

I didn't say anywhere that women are naughtier than men. There's nothing in my post which even implies that to be true.

The Quran clarifies that it is our piety alone which determines our status with the Almighty, not our gender or our cultural backgrounds, as it says:

"O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most noble among you in the sight of God is the most pious. Verily, God is All-Knowing, All-Aware" - (Surah 49:13)

See this if you want to learn more about the status of women in Islam: Muslim Women in the Quran and Sunnah

[Thor]

The answer is that both men and women are told to dress modestly when they go outside and not to show off their beauty (according to the Quran).

I've been places where I've seen Muslim women covered from head to toe with only their eyes showing, while the men with them were wearing sandals, shorts and T-shirts. (Yes, they were nice and cool while the females had to sweat under their ridiculous coverings). The men didn't seem to think they were dressed "immodestly". But I'm sure they would freak out if their wives or daughters went out in public dressed the same way. A monstrous double standard!

And there's a verse in the Quran which specifically tells women to "draw over their veils (khimar)" so that it covers their chest as well (in Surah 23:41).

A verse written by MEN! Why should anyone live their life according to the dictates of 8th century men?!?!

That's why many of the Muslim women will cover their face and body as a way of obeying this command.

Not to mention to avoid getting beaten....

In another verse, it says:

"O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." (Surah 33:59)

More crap written by 8th century ignoramuses. This verse is relevant today? Give me a break! Or, more appropriately, give women who have the misfortune to be born in Muslim theocracies a break!

However, I should also point out that the headcover was something that was wore by women in Arabia before Islam, and this implies that there is a cultural root in wearing the headcover, not only Islamic.

So what? Many cultures have traditional clothing. But there is no law FORCING people to wear it!

The only difference was that they wouldn't cover their chests and thus revealing a part of their bodies (i.e. the chest). So that's why the Quran is asking women to take their headcover and to use it to cover their chests as well.

So women were basically walking around topless and the men had a problem with this? Sounds wonderful to me! Leave it to Muslim assholes to fuck up a good thing.

Also, there are varying opinions on the importance of wearing the veil. Some of the scholars say that it is compulsory (fard) to wear it while others believe that it is only recommended (mustahab) in Islam.

So Muslims themselves can't agree if having women wear sacks over their heads is demanded or not? Gee, you'd think this would be absolutely clear if your deity was so concerned about it. But, like many bullshit things in religion, the faithful can't even agree among themselves!

Now the question is, why don't the men have to wear a sack over their heads? The answer is simply because the men and women are not the same biologically, intellectually, and emotionally

Well, women certainly aren't the same as men biologically. Intellectually? Many women are college professors, inventors, business leaders, airplane pilots, political leaders, CEOs, doctors, ship captains, you name it! Can you explain how women are "intellectually" different from men? Because such a comment sounds awfully sexist! And what do emotions have to do with anything?

as Allah says in the Quran, "wa laysa zakaru kal unsa" ("the male is not like the female").

Actually, "Allah" says no such thing. The people who wrote the Koran are the ones saying this.

And that's why there are certain differences in the requirements between the two genders.

So, because men have a penis and are less prone to display their emotions, they don't have to wear a sack over their heads? Yeah, makes perfect sense to me. (And, no, men are not intellectually superior. So take that sexist bullshit and stick it.)

In Islam, men have their own roles and women have their own roles.

Yes, the man's role is to be lord and master. The woman's role is to be a sex doll and a slave.

Men have been given a role that they are more capable of doing, and women have been given a role that they are more capable of doing.

According to who? Eighth century pinheads? In your culture Marie Curie, Margaret Thatcher, Sally Ride and Condoleeza Rice would have been nothing but house slaves doing their husband's bidding. Your statement here is an incredible insult to women.

Neither of these roles is inherently better than the other or "looked down" upon in Islam.

Oh, really? Who makes decisions in the household? Who has authority? Who can divorce their spouse simply by saying "I divorce you" three times? Hint: it's not the person with a vagina.

For a Muslim, equality is a religious and spiritual equality which means that when we do good deeds, whether a male or a female, we are both rewarded equally. And this is the meaning of equality in Islam.

I think of equality in terms of how people are treated by others. Whether or not they have access to the same opportunities and are treated equally under the law. Obviously, as you admit here, "equality" means no such thing in Islam.

Women have to prove their worth in the sight of Allah, not in the sight of men.

Maybe that's a good thing. Because in the Islamic world, men pretty much consider women to be worthless.

And the same goes for men.

And they get extra points for honor killings!

[downbeatplumb]

There's something suspect about the logic here.

Premise 1) Women have different naughty bits to men.
Premise 2) (from 1) Women are therefore different from men.
Conclusion: Therefore, women must wear sacks over their heads and men don't have to.

I didn't say anywhere that women are naughtier than men. There's nothing in my post which even implies that to be true.

The omnissunt one was just using a euphamism instead of saying womem have vaginas and men have penis's, there was no implication that women are naughtier, (mores the pity)

[Thor]

Good call, Thor. Do you stock tips as well?

You don't want stock tips from me! I'm still waiting for my Cisco shares to bounce back!

[Minimalist]

Good girls go to heaven....bad girls go everywhere!