On the subject of Hell and Salvation

[no one]

In all honesty, I would rather spend eternity in hell with satan who is at least a prick to your face, then spend a single second with that back stabbing, cowardly, weasel that resides over heaven!

[Jade-Green Stone]

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

The concept of Heaven and Hell has always been a slippery slope on purpose. It's so that they can claim by doing as they say, preacher man/women I mean, and you will in turn come to the pearly gates. Turns out, life in much more complicated than that. (No shit Jade!). But in all seriousness, here are just SOME of the rules I have heard in regards to getting to 'Heaven' and getting out of 'Hell'. (Not in any order.)

1. Repenting, basically degrading yourself form time to time in front of a preacher, who you may swear is getting a boner will you kneeling in front of him (Joke). And confessing your sins to him and before God/the alter with the cross on it, be them real or imaginary to you. (This seems to be the main way you get to heaven)
2. Money!!! (Insert over use meme here) By paying Televangelists or the church you go to, you are given repentance as you helped your church, which is good pot brownie point sin gods eyes, *Cough* I mean brownie points! Yeah that's what I meant! Or cookies, that's always good too! God don't judge your sweet preference! At least I hope not.
3. Bible study, by reading this book you could possibly kill your rival with if you hit them hard enough or stash your pot in, God sees it as you are studying his word. So more sweet points! (Though I have to say now, it's unsure how many points you need to get into Heaven, the game is a bit glitchy.)
4. Actually going to church, by just merely walking through the doors, and/or being blessed with that strange smelling, yellow oil and sitting for at leas ta few minuets, you seem to gain more points and the church will start to 'help save' your soul
5. Prayer Circle! On the off chance you lose points, don't fret, just got to your local church, confess again, and Pray Circle! By having ever sweaty, clammy, and very touchy hand on you *Eyes old guy next to me*, their 'goodness'  and 'faith' will spread to you and you will somehow achieve mega points! MORE POT BROWNIES/COOKIE YA'LL! We are on a roll here!
6. Becoming a preacher, yeah for some odd reason or another just by making yourself a religious leader, be that cult like or not, you automatically gain entry into heaven regardless of what you do in life. So long as you keep preaching the 'word' or whatever that may be. (Not sure why most people don't do this one more often, it's rather easy.)
7. Becoming any helper, with high standing, in the church gives you more points. Be that a Sunday school teacher, as you are helping the ignorant youth be saved in the off chance they get into a car accident or swallow too many marbles. Or even just being a frequent music singer for the church, lead everyone along in those very repeating sounding songs, that I swear are just the same tune with different lyrics. 
8. Just merely believing you are going to heaven and proclaiming it loudly enough seems to work, at least that's how most churches I go to are like. Regardless if they believe in preset destiny/ no free will or not.
and 9. (Maybe I should have stopped as the magic number si- *Couch* 7, oh well whatever) Baptism, nearly drowning in a water, be it at birth or later in life, somehow will wash away that bad juju smell and make you a clean a catfish before entering into the pearly gates. Just as long as you don't mind the cold water and possibly standing in church members pee from time to time

I could keep going on, but I've run out of sarcasm for the night, I can't sleep so I'm up at like 6 in the morning doing this when I have to be in work in four hours. Lovely isn't it!
As for how they can condemn people to hell, that one is easy, by doing so they keep having people coming back to be saved and get their pot brownies. Truth be told, in my opinion, getting to heaven can be as simple and as hard as a person makes it or how your church/religious group make sit for you. And we honestly won't know until we die, until your a Calvinist in which you think your fate is already set regardless of what you do! So that's good I guess!

Anyone want to add to the growing list, actually maybe I should making this a thread!

[Nay_Sayer]

Just out of curiousity GC, what is your stance on those who were previously “saved” but have since become an atheist/rescinded their belief?

My parents believe I’m still saved, but have simply lost my way—i.e. I still get a ticket to heaven.

My personal view is you were never saved, how is it that a person who comes to "know" Jesus can then reject Him. That would be like you denying you exist.

GC

---

Why the bible (old or new testament?) and not the koran or Bhagavad Gita or XYZ etc...life's too short to read all "holy" books to gleen their take on disbelief - how about you just tell us what the bible has to say on the matter (like we care, it being a book written by men, just like all the others).

The book written by men who were inspired by the living God. I know you do not care and that is your down fall in understanding, that's your fault and no one else's. To find the truth you have to have an open mind and since you admit you have closed your's off the truth will evade you, again your fault.

GC

---

What color was the Scotsman's kilt again?  Bless.

RAmen

 Why ask me he is your buddy.

GC

---

Now that I've answered your questions I see no reason for further discussion, each of you have made it clear you do not care and if that's what you want so be it.

GC

You're the one pulling the 'correct way to read the bible' card not I.  Which is immaterial since it is a plagiarized butchering of the holy scrolls of FSM

[Godscreated]

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

---

The concept of Heaven and Hell has always been a slippery slope on purpose. It's so that they can claim by doing as they say, preacher man/women I mean, and you will in turn come to the pearly gates. Turns out, life in much more complicated than that. (No shit Jade!). But in all seriousness, here are just SOME of the rules I have heard in regards to getting to 'Heaven' and getting out of 'Hell'. (Not in any order.)

1. Repenting, basically degrading yourself form time to time in front of a preacher, who you may swear is getting a boner will you kneeling in front of him (Joke). And confessing your sins to him and before God/the alter with the cross on it, be them real or imaginary to you. (This seems to be the main way you get to heaven)
2. Money!!! (Insert over use meme here) By paying Televangelists or the church you go to, you are given repentance as you helped your church, which is good pot brownie point sin gods eyes, *Cough* I mean brownie points! Yeah that's what I meant! Or cookies, that's always good too! God don't judge your sweet preference! At least I hope not.
3. Bible study, by reading this book you could possibly kill your rival with if you hit them hard enough or stash your pot in, God sees it as you are studying his word. So more sweet points! (Though I have to say now, it's unsure how many points you need to get into Heaven, the game is a bit glitchy.)
4. Actually going to church, by just merely walking through the doors, and/or being blessed with that strange smelling, yellow oil and sitting for at leas ta few minuets, you seem to gain more points and the church will start to 'help save' your soul
5. Prayer Circle! On the off chance you lose points, don't fret, just got to your local church, confess again, and Pray Circle! By having ever sweaty, clammy, and very touchy hand on you *Eyes old guy next to me*, their 'goodness'  and 'faith' will spread to you and you will somehow achieve mega points! MORE POT BROWNIES/COOKIE YA'LL! We are on a roll here!
6. Becoming a preacher, yeah for some odd reason or another just by making yourself a religious leader, be that cult like or not, you automatically gain entry into heaven regardless of what you do in life. So long as you keep preaching the 'word' or whatever that may be. (Not sure why most people don't do this one more often, it's rather easy.)
7. Becoming any helper, with high standing, in the church gives you more points. Be that a Sunday school teacher, as you are helping the ignorant youth be saved in the off chance they get into a car accident or swallow too many marbles. Or even just being a frequent music singer for the church, lead everyone along in those very repeating sounding songs, that I swear are just the same tune with different lyrics. 
8. Just merely believing you are going to heaven and proclaiming it loudly enough seems to work, at least that's how most churches I go to are like. Regardless if they believe in preset destiny/ no free will or not.
and 9. (Maybe I should have stopped as the magic number si- *Couch* 7, oh well whatever) Baptism, nearly drowning in a water, be it at birth or later in life, somehow will wash away that bad juju smell and make you a clean a catfish before entering into the pearly gates. Just as long as you don't mind the cold water and possibly standing in church members pee from time to time

I could keep going on, but I've run out of sarcasm for the night, I can't sleep so I'm up at like 6 in the morning doing this when I have to be in work in four hours. Lovely isn't it!
As for how they can condemn people to hell, that one is easy, by doing so they keep having people coming back to be saved and get their pot brownies. Truth be told, in my opinion, getting to heaven can be as simple and as hard as a person makes it or how your church/religious group make sit for you. And we honestly won't know until we die, until your a Calvinist in which you think your fate is already set regardless of what you do! So that's good I guess!

Anyone want to add to the growing list, actually maybe I should making this a thread!

---

 None of those things will get you to heaven nor any combination of them, and as for hell all are born to that destiny unless they seek the truth of salvation.

GC

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

---

The concept of Heaven and Hell has always been a slippery slope on purpose. It's so that they can claim by doing as they say, preacher man/women I mean, and you will in turn come to the pearly gates. Turns out, life in much more complicated than that. (No shit Jade!). But in all seriousness, here are just SOME of the rules I have heard in regards to getting to 'Heaven' and getting out of 'Hell'. (Not in any order.)

1. Repenting, basically degrading yourself form time to time in front of a preacher, who you may swear is getting a boner will you kneeling in front of him (Joke). And confessing your sins to him and before God/the alter with the cross on it, be them real or imaginary to you. (This seems to be the main way you get to heaven)
2. Money!!! (Insert over use meme here) By paying Televangelists or the church you go to, you are given repentance as you helped your church, which is good pot brownie point sin gods eyes, *Cough* I mean brownie points! Yeah that's what I meant! Or cookies, that's always good too! God don't judge your sweet preference! At least I hope not.
3. Bible study, by reading this book you could possibly kill your rival with if you hit them hard enough or stash your pot in, God sees it as you are studying his word. So more sweet points! (Though I have to say now, it's unsure how many points you need to get into Heaven, the game is a bit glitchy.)
4. Actually going to church, by just merely walking through the doors, and/or being blessed with that strange smelling, yellow oil and sitting for at leas ta few minuets, you seem to gain more points and the church will start to 'help save' your soul
5. Prayer Circle! On the off chance you lose points, don't fret, just got to your local church, confess again, and Pray Circle! By having ever sweaty, clammy, and very touchy hand on you *Eyes old guy next to me*, their 'goodness'  and 'faith' will spread to you and you will somehow achieve mega points! MORE POT BROWNIES/COOKIE YA'LL! We are on a roll here!
6. Becoming a preacher, yeah for some odd reason or another just by making yourself a religious leader, be that cult like or not, you automatically gain entry into heaven regardless of what you do in life. So long as you keep preaching the 'word' or whatever that may be. (Not sure why most people don't do this one more often, it's rather easy.)
7. Becoming any helper, with high standing, in the church gives you more points. Be that a Sunday school teacher, as you are helping the ignorant youth be saved in the off chance they get into a car accident or swallow too many marbles. Or even just being a frequent music singer for the church, lead everyone along in those very repeating sounding songs, that I swear are just the same tune with different lyrics. 
8. Just merely believing you are going to heaven and proclaiming it loudly enough seems to work, at least that's how most churches I go to are like. Regardless if they believe in preset destiny/ no free will or not.
and 9. (Maybe I should have stopped as the magic number si- *Couch* 7, oh well whatever) Baptism, nearly drowning in a water, be it at birth or later in life, somehow will wash away that bad juju smell and make you a clean a catfish before entering into the pearly gates. Just as long as you don't mind the cold water and possibly standing in church members pee from time to time

I could keep going on, but I've run out of sarcasm for the night, I can't sleep so I'm up at like 6 in the morning doing this when I have to be in work in four hours. Lovely isn't it!
As for how they can condemn people to hell, that one is easy, by doing so they keep having people coming back to be saved and get their pot brownies. Truth be told, in my opinion, getting to heaven can be as simple and as hard as a person makes it or how your church/religious group make sit for you. And we honestly won't know until we die, until your a Calvinist in which you think your fate is already set regardless of what you do! So that's good I guess!

Anyone want to add to the growing list, actually maybe I should making this a thread!

---

 None of those things will get you to heaven nor any combination of them, and as for hell all are born to that destiny unless they seek the truth of salvation.

GC
[/quote]

Well..... Is a right naffy thing there in't no such location?

In'it?

[GrandizerII]

The inability to choose to believe is a fundamental principle in Jewish theology. It's one of the reasons that we are a bit bewildered by proselytizers.

I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Ok, so where do you think I went wrong? Is there something else my pastors and mentor neglected to tell me when I was a Christian?

The only thing I can think of that I didn't include is the "Jesus loves us so much he died for us" bit. And if that's what you're referring, I'm not fussed.

[tackattack]

Where you went wrong, bolding by me.

---

I'd like to point something out. There are hundreds of millions, if not more, of people around the world who will Never, Ever discover Jesus or the Christian faith, and yet STILL be sentenced to eternal torment for not believing in something they've never even heard of according to Christians. WTF? HOW CAN PEOPLE JUSTIFY THAT???

I got off the phone with a family friend yesterday and it turns out that she thinks Christianity (Heaven, Hell, Bible) is bullshit too. I brought this up and she actually AGREED with me.

Easy. According to the Christianity I once held to, you're condemned to hell anyway, regardless of whether you've heard of Jesus or not (because it's sin, not mere lack of belief in Jesus, that puts you under divine condemnation). Only Jesus saves.

This clearly is a sociopathic way of thinking, but it's the most logically consistent answer to the question, given the Bible says stuff about how Jesus is the only Way and all that.

---

" For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus "-Rom 2
That plus sin being a choice or act of volition, it requires reason and intent to sin
And because of the difficulty of that, coupled with ...
"How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" -Rom. 10
It evidences the reason why we share an easy way out of ignorance and are called to share God.

---

I see none who have responded to this thread have read the Bible with the intent to understand what God has said on this subject, Grandy got somewhat close but still missed the mark throwing hand grenades doesn't count in a discussion, close isn't being correct. Read the Bible and find out what it says before you condemn something, this sbject has been discussed many times over the years and the answer has been provided, I know because I'm one of those who has given the answer.

GC

Just out of curiousity GC, what is your stance on those who were previously “saved” but have since become an atheist/rescinded their belief?

My parents believe I’m still saved, but have simply lost my way—i.e. I still get a ticket to heaven.

---

I wouldn't go so far as to say you were never saved. I actually believe that once saved, always saved. I could very well see you in Heaven one day. Your salvation isn't dependent on you.

I know that my opinion wasn't asked, sorry if it upsets anyone, that's not the intent.

[GrandizerII]

Where you went wrong, bolding by me.

---

Easy. According to the Christianity I once held to, you're condemned to hell anyway, regardless of whether you've heard of Jesus or not (because it's sin, not mere lack of belief in Jesus, that puts you under divine condemnation). Only Jesus saves.

This clearly is a sociopathic way of thinking, but it's the most logically consistent answer to the question, given the Bible says stuff about how Jesus is the only Way and all that.

---

" For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus "-Rom 2
That plus sin being a choice or act of volition, it requires reason and intent to sin
And because of the difficulty of that, coupled with ...
"How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" -Rom. 10
It evidences the reason why we share an easy way out of ignorance and are called to share God.

I still don't see anything I said wrong here. According to Paul, do you think having the law in one's heart can prevent one who is born in sin to fall short in God's eyes? Here's the answer given in Romans 3, which continues from the stuff Paul said in Romans 2. Bolded mine.

Romans 3:

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16
ruin and misery mark their ways,
17
and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

As for Romans 10, exactly. You're not saved if the Gospel does not reach you. Hence, the need for preachers.

[Godscreated]

Well..... Is a right naffy thing there in't no such location?

In'it?  

They are there, just because you reject them doesn't make them disappear. Kinda' like when man once believed the sun revolved around the earth and then came to find out that it was the other way around. Truth and reality can never change if either did they wouldn't be truth or reality.

GC

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Well..... Is a right naffy thing there in't no such location?

In'it?  

They are there, just because you reject them doesn't make them disappear. Kinda' like when man once believed the sun revolved around the earth and then came to find out that it was the other way around. Truth and reality can never change if either did they wouldn't be truth or reality.

GC

Okay.

Where, precisely, is this 'There' you speak of?

Pointers? Googlemaps referance perhaps?