Cardinal George Pell.

[fredd bear]

I'm wondering what the evidence against George Pell actually was.
Surely he couldn't be convicted on one man's testimony alone after thirty years.
I'm not on George Pell's side, if there was irrefutable evidence I would be all for him getting a bullet to the head straight after the guilty verdict.
But what if he's innocent?
I've mixed with the lower end of humanity and met many people who would convincingly tell lies for money or pity or just to make excuses for the fuckups in their life.

 I've been wondering the same thing too. I seem to remember there were two accusers. Plus he was facing other charges, which were dropped.

I was under the impression he was gaoled immediately on conviction. I saw a TV report on him having spent his first night in prison. That he will be protected against other inmates, and will spend 23 hours a day in his cell.

I mentioned previously thatI though the man was much older. Surprised to find he is only 77. I suspect he is in poor health and may not survive even a fairly short sentence. The court is obliged to take age and health into account.
 
I'm really not fussed about Pell; as far as I'm concerned, he's a dung beetle. I'm far more interested in the precedent. I'm hoping for many more convictions. More important I think,, is that the church and all other institutions dealing with children  begin to install procedures to deal with abuse as it occurs. That will include, what I suspect will be a slow process, of teaching children to report abuse  when it happens, rather than to feel shame and fear.

The Catholic church is only one organisation. I think it almost certainly happens within all institutions where adults have power over children.Eg Schools, Boy scouts, Girl guides and similar. Nor  do I believe the abuse has suddenly just stopped. My perception is that it will take generations to eliminate the abuse.

I wish I knew a simple way, but I do not. I am pleased that something concrete is apparently being done, but it's far too soon for self congratulations.. 

It is my perception that child abuse is a deeply entrenched issue, I suspect in most societies on earth. It ain't just going to go away .

[Godscreated]

I the death penalty is on the table that's what he should get and any of the others involved in that kind of garbage.

GC

[Fake Messiah]

I the death penalty is on the table that's what he should get and any of the others involved in that kind of garbage.

GC

Or even worse: they could force Pell to listen to GC's rants about everything from Bible to evolution so that he confronts with the damage Christianity does to human brain.

[fredd bear]

I the death penalty is on the table that's what he should get and any of the others involved in that kind of garbage.

GC

What a very Christian attitude.

 Neither the death penalty nor castration are on the table. Perhaps in Saudi Arabia and other bastions of  justice----After all, Sharia law is based on Mosaic law.

--I am so glad Christians are no longer allowed to burn people alive or kill them in other colourful ways..

[Godscreated]

I the death penalty is on the table that's what he should get and any of the others involved in that kind of garbage.

GC

What a very Christian attitude.

 Neither the death penalty nor castration are on the table. Perhaps in Saudi Arabia and other bastions of  justice----After all, Sharia law is based on Mosaic law.

--I am so glad Christians are no longer allowed to burn people alive or kill them in other colourful ways..

I see you live by a double standard how atheist of you, without absolute standards you can pick and choose as you have in this thread. Little lunch said shoot him in the head and you gave no response to that statement, yet let a Christian propose something you believe you can pick at and you will without regard, how atheist of you. The man has ruined lives, surely you do not believe a pedophile stops with one child do you, nor has it been demonstrated they can be cured, so what use are they to society. You may enjoy having a double standard but in reality it shows your lack of concern on many levels.

GC

[fredd bear]

What a very Christian attitude.

 Neither the death penalty nor castration are on the table. Perhaps in Saudi Arabia and other bastions of  justice----After all, Sharia law is based on Mosaic law.

--I am so glad Christians are no longer allowed to burn people alive or kill them in other colourful ways..

I see you live by a double standard how atheist of you, without absolute standards you can pick and choose as you have in this thread. Little lunch said shoot him in the head and you gave no response to that statement, yet let a Christian propose something you believe you can pick at and you will without regard, how atheist of you. The man has ruined lives, surely you do not believe a pedophile stops with one child do you, nor has it been demonstrated they can be cured, so what use are they to society. You may enjoy having a double standard but in reality it shows your lack of concern on many levels.

GC

Straw man fallacy. My post was aimed directly at your typical Christian hypocrisy.. It was not an expression of my position on capital punishment..

This simple fact seem not to have reached your brain:  Atheism  is not an homogeneous position. There is no rule book, although many of us do not accept moral absolutism. As is our right. Your criticism is to be expected., coming from a narrow minded and dogmatic  believer who, like most of his ilk cherrypicks the attractive and easy parts of the bible.

Every person on earth is free to choose their own morality As long as they do not harm others, their moral beliefs are no one else's business.

The moral relativism you criticise isa valid position, and  far more difficult to live by than an unreflecting position of moral absolutism. 

  Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 I interpret that as a call to be compassionate and forgiving. Yet, there you are advocating the death penalty, with fire and judgment., when it is clearly not appropriate.  Yet you judge me and others here. The people here are easily your moral equal, so get off your high horse,.

Matthew 7:5

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

[Little lunch]

What a very Christian attitude.

 Neither the death penalty nor castration are on the table. Perhaps in Saudi Arabia and other bastions of  justice----After all, Sharia law is based on Mosaic law.

--I am so glad Christians are no longer allowed to burn people alive or kill them in other colourful ways..

I see you live by a double standard how atheist of you, without absolute standards you can pick and choose as you have in this thread. Little lunch said shoot him in the head and you gave no response to that statement, yet let a Christian propose something you believe you can pick at and you will without regard, how atheist of you. The man has ruined lives, surely you do not believe a pedophile stops with one child do you, nor has it been demonstrated they can be cured, so what use are they to society. You may enjoy having a double standard but in reality it shows your lack of concern on many levels.

GC

Actually, there are paedophiles who are none practicing, so to speak.
They feel an attraction to children but they also understand the damage they'd do if they act upon those feelings.
The problem is that there is no help for these people, no therapy or group sessions, almost uncharted territory.
I believe paedophiles are born this way. 
We have a part of us that loves others in a romantic way and a part that is maternal and protective towards children.
Paedophiles have no boundary between these feelings and they can't help it.
But some paedophiles are also rapists and manipulators that understand the pain they cause but do it anyway, and that, in my opinion, is unforgivable.
I suppose a bullet to the head is a little strong.
I have an 8 yr old daughter and I spoke rashly whilst considering her, but hey, murder is a far worse crime when you think about it and we don't all wish them dead.
So far treatments have failed to curb the desire of paedophiles, but I think it's in society's best interests to keep trying, considering how hard it is to detect them.

[fredd bear]

@Little Lunch

"Actually, there are paedophiles who are none practicing, so to speak."

I have no doubt of that. Feelings are not a crime. Behaviour can be, that is why we are held responsible for what we do.

Your post shows more compassion and a moral superiority to the Christians on this forum who presume to judge we damned atheists.

[Godscreated]

I see you live by a double standard how atheist of you, without absolute standards you can pick and choose as you have in this thread. Little lunch said shoot him in the head and you gave no response to that statement, yet let a Christian propose something you believe you can pick at and you will without regard, how atheist of you. The man has ruined lives, surely you do not believe a pedophile stops with one child do you, nor has it been demonstrated they can be cured, so what use are they to society. You may enjoy having a double standard but in reality it shows your lack of concern on many levels.

GC

Actually, there are paedophiles who are none practicing, so to speak.
They feel an attraction to children but they also understand the damage they'd do if they act upon those feelings.
The problem is that there is no help for these people, no therapy or group sessions, almost uncharted territory.
I believe paedophiles are born this way. 
We have a part of us that loves others in a romantic way and a part that is maternal and protective towards children.
Paedophiles have no boundary between these feelings and they can't help it.
But some paedophiles are also rapists and manipulators that understand the pain they cause but do it anyway, and that, in my opinion, is unforgivable.
I suppose a bullet to the head is a little strong.
I have an 8 yr old daughter and I spoke rashly whilst considering her, but hey, murder is a far worse crime when you think about it and we don't all wish them dead.
So far treatments have failed to curb the desire of paedophiles, but I think it's in society's best interests to keep trying, considering how hard it is to detect them.

 I know all this and I know those who act upon their urges will continue too. Why give them the opportunity to ruin more lives after they have been caught, keeping them jailed hasn't been an option, so why not do away with them before they destroy more lives. It's not just the children that suffer an entire family suffers and most never get over it. When they are turned loose from jail they go on watch list until they just slip away to practice their vile deed out of sight of the law. This stuff hasn't worked and by all indications it will never work. As for mentioning you in my previous post, it was to make a point about how Christians are treated here when we believe that some crimes demand the death penalty. We are neither hard hearted nor soft hearted we just see that justice needs to be served to preserve a decent society.

GC

---

I see you live by a double standard how atheist of you, without absolute standards you can pick and choose as you have in this thread. Little lunch said shoot him in the head and you gave no response to that statement, yet let a Christian propose something you believe you can pick at and you will without regard, how atheist of you. The man has ruined lives, surely you do not believe a pedophile stops with one child do you, nor has it been demonstrated they can be cured, so what use are they to society. You may enjoy having a double standard but in reality it shows your lack of concern on many levels.

GC

Straw man fallacy. My post was aimed directly at your typical Christian hypocrisy.. It was not an expression of my position on capital punishment..

This simple fact seem not to have reached your brain:  Atheism  is not an homogeneous position. There is no rule book, although many of us do not accept moral absolutism. As is our right. Your criticism is to be expected., coming from a narrow minded and dogmatic  believer who, like most of his ilk cherrypicks the attractive and easy parts of the bible.

Every person on earth is free to choose their own morality As long as they do not harm others, their moral beliefs are no one else's business.

The moral relativism you criticise isa valid position, and  far more difficult to live by than an unreflecting position of moral absolutism. 

  Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 I interpret that as a call to be compassionate and forgiving. Yet, there you are advocating the death penalty, with fire and judgment., when it is clearly not appropriate.  Yet you judge me and others here. The people here are easily your moral equal, so get off your high horse,.

Matthew 7:5

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

 Bull, you are now trying to defend what you have done, using a double standard and it's easy to see. I have never and will never cherry pick the Bible it's all or none, cherry picking is done by those who hate Christianity, like yourself. You have no sense of the greater teachings of the scriptures and how they are tied together, you have cherry picked verses in your post and have no idea what they mean, none whatsoever. 
 First and foremost a pedophile who acts upon his urges is not my, he is a criminal of the most vile kind, ruining the lives of children (if he leaves them alive) and the family members of that child in either case. To love my neighbor would be to support him when his child has been abuse and or killed by a pedophile, if I had compassion on the pedophile then how can I support my neighbor and would the neighbor even accept my support if I were to have compassion for the pedophile. There are crimes that demand the death penalty, they are few but this is one of those few. You are the one that brought up this about a supposed Christian being a pedophile and when a Christian stands against this kind of behavior with something as strong as the death penalty you will criticize them also. If that's not a double standard within itself let lone the one I pointed out in my previous post I don't know what is. As far as I'm concerned you have no idea what Christianity is about and your opinions on it are worthless. Since you brought the verses up, to love my God is to obey His commandments and putting to death a pedophile is from Him, so you see I am not being a hypocrite I'm taking a stand with the one I love.

GC

[fredd bear]

I have a few friends here in the legal fraternity.

Apparently, there some legal types think George may get off on appeal. I hope not , again because of the precedent. He's apparently in poor health, so may die before spending much time in prison ,regardless.

I recently saw a video of him being questioned. His presentation is very credible.