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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 4:44 pm
(March 22, 2019 at 4:40 pm)fredd bear Wrote: @EgoDeath
"Are gun-owners paranoid, or are you naive? "
Paranoid? No, certainly not. only the American ones. Are you paranoid? Absolutely judging by the drivel you've been posting about guns, and trying to make relevant in Oz.
Am I naive about guns? . I like guns. I spent 2 years in the army as a grunt X medic. Rated marksman with 7.62 SLR ,proficient with F1 sub machine gun (piece of shit) M60 machine gun, armalite, Karl Gustav anti tank, M26 and M36 grenades. Have never handled pistols.
The very thought of large numbers of civilians owning guns scares the shit out of me---as group, people with guns are so fucking STUPID! I think US gun related stats prove that point. I do no town a firearm, and have never allowed one on my property.
To avoid misunderstanding; I am not a vet and did not serve in a combat zone.
I say again, Australia is not the US.
"That maybe there are some good reasons to own guns?"
Absolutely; if you are say a policeman, a member of the armed forces or say farmer who needs to shoot foxes and 'roos, or even if you belong to a gun club, and all guns are kept at the club in locked safes. (that's the law here ) If you are simply an ordinary person living an OZ city, no. you don't need a firearm . I say again: our stats for gun related deaths prove my claim..
The claim of needing a gun for protection is complete bullshit. Even with advanced weapons training, it is exceedingly difficult to actually shoot another person. Joe Sixpack is more likely to freeze, shit himself and shoot the wife.
I don't give rat's arse what you do in the US.
Bored now, nothing more to say to yo on this issue.
You're not even reading what I'm saying to you. You keep saying that I'm claiming things about Australia and NZ when I've done nothing of the sort. Not sure why you put these blinders on, but I'm tired of going back and forth with someone who isn't even reading my words. This could've been a meaningful conversation. Oh well.
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 5:00 pm
In 64 years I have never been so afraid that I felt the need to be able to kill someone at a distance. Never felt the need to even handle a gun, why would I?
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 5:26 pm
(March 22, 2019 at 5:00 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: In 64 years I have never been so afraid that I felt the need to be able to kill someone at a distance. Never felt the need to even handle a gun, why would I?
Just so.
I was always grateful that I never found myself in that position.IE I managed to actively avoid going to Vietnam.
You hit the nail on the head; it is the function of a firearm to kill people. I would not be able to live with myself if I killed another person, either with my car, or in self defence
In Oz, our laws on self defence may be different than say the US; in defending oneself, one is only permitted to use 'reasonable force' .You better have a good lawyer if you kill some one 'in self defence"
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 5:57 pm
(March 22, 2019 at 5:26 pm)fredd bear Wrote: (March 22, 2019 at 5:00 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: In 64 years I have never been so afraid that I felt the need to be able to kill someone at a distance. Never felt the need to even handle a gun, why would I?
Just so.
I was always grateful that I never found myself in that position.IE I managed to actively avoid going to Vietnam.
You hit the nail on the head; it is the function of a firearm to kill people. I would not be able to live with myself if I killed another person, either with my car, or in self defence
In Oz, our laws on self defence may be different than say the US; in defending oneself, one is only permitted to use 'reasonable force' .You better have a good lawyer if you kill some one 'in self defence"
What about pre-emptive self defence?
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 5:58 pm
(This post was last modified: March 22, 2019 at 5:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Depends on whether you live in a castle state. Cant say that I couldn't handle ending somebody, but I can easily say that I;m not interested in adding another face to pile...even if theyre in my house stealing my shit.
I don't get the whole "self defense" angle, who the fuck is trying to murder these people? Are they really dreaming of defending themselves or just their stuff? Like..asshole took my coffee cup..so imma kill him?
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 6:16 pm
(March 22, 2019 at 3:36 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: (March 22, 2019 at 1:38 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: OLB is a great anti-gun argument.
Suck shit through a straw, you bullshitting blowhard.
LOL
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 7:37 pm
(March 22, 2019 at 5:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (March 22, 2019 at 5:26 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Just so.
I was always grateful that I never found myself in that position.IE I managed to actively avoid going to Vietnam.
You hit the nail on the head; it is the function of a firearm to kill people. I would not be able to live with myself if I killed another person, either with my car, or in self defence
In Oz, our laws on self defence may be different than say the US; in defending oneself, one is only permitted to use 'reasonable force' .You better have a good lawyer if you kill some one 'in self defence"
What about pre-emptive self defence?
Ah, yes. The time honoured I-thought-he-was-going-to-hit-me-so-I-hit-him-back-first defense.
Boru
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 22, 2019 at 7:38 pm
(March 22, 2019 at 7:37 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (March 22, 2019 at 5:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: What about pre-emptive self defence?
Ah, yes. The time honoured I-thought-he-was-going-to-hit-me-so-I-hit-him-back-first defense.
Boru
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 23, 2019 at 3:40 am
Not sure what the disconnect is. America has lots of guns, and therefore has a lot fewer victims of murder or violent assault, right?
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RE: New Zealand Bans Assault Weapons
March 27, 2019 at 2:32 am
(This post was last modified: March 27, 2019 at 2:33 am by fredd bear.)
(March 22, 2019 at 5:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (March 22, 2019 at 5:26 pm)fredd bear Wrote: Just so.
I was always grateful that I never found myself in that position.IE I managed to actively avoid going to Vietnam.
You hit the nail on the head; it is the function of a firearm to kill people. I would not be able to live with myself if I killed another person, either with my car, or in self defence
In Oz, our laws on self defence may be different than say the US; in defending oneself, one is only permitted to use 'reasonable force' .You better have a good lawyer if you kill some one 'in self defence"
What about pre-emptive self defence?
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As I understand our self defence laws, the criterium is' reasonable force', which has a specific meaning at law, but I'm not a lawyer..
I am aware that if say an unarmed burglar broke into your house and you shot him , you might be charged. Further, you might be sued by the burglar.
In context of the real world, self defence rarely comes up here. I suspect that may be due to the law rather than people trying to plead self defence.
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In the criminal law of Australia, self-defence is a legal defence to a charge of causing injury or death in defence of the person or, to a limited extent, property, or a partial defence to murder if the degree of force used was excessive.
Self-defence in murder
In Viro v The Queen,[1] Justice Mason formulated six propositions on the law of self-defence in murder trials. Thus, a full acquittal is achieved if the jury finds that an accused reasonably believed they were threatened with death or serious bodily harm and, if so, that the force used was reasonably proportionate to the perceived danger. In Zecevic v Director of Public Prosecutions,[2] the victim rented a unit from the defendant. The defendant became increasingly annoyed with the victim who kept leaving the security gates of the unit unlocked. After one heated exchange, the defendant was stabbed by the tenant. The defendant, fearing that the tenant was about to get a gun from his car, rushed off and got his shotgun. The defendant returned, and shot and killed the tenant. The majority of the High Court said at 661:[3][4]
The question to be asked in the end is quite simple. It is whether the accused believed upon reasonable grounds that it was necessary in self-defence to do what he did. If he had that belief and there were reasonable grounds for it, or if the jury is left in reasonable doubt about the matter, then he is entitled to an acquittal. Stated in this form, the question is one of general application and is not limited to cases of homicide.
The New South Wales Court of Criminal Appeal in R v Burgess; R v Saunders held that 'the concept of self-defence only arises where the actions of the accused by way of self-defence are directly taken against the person threatening the accused or another’s being or property.'[5][6][7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_(Australia)
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