In support of the rage of man

[Belacqua]

Maybe it's just me.

Going just by what you've said on this forum, I don't see you as a dangerous type. The main thing is that you are self-aware and thinking about the issues. 

There are people who come to this site every day and act verbally aggressive. They think this is good. They are happy with what they do. Calling you names is how they make the world better. 

Much better to be self-aware and self-critical than to preen oneself by aggressing anonymously. 

The cheap psychoanalysis isn't serious. It's just a method to get at you. 

I've also noticed how easy it is to bring up divorce, or suggest that your wife should have left you, etc. It's so easy to give shallow advice when it's someone else's life we're talking about. This is something foreigners notice about America -- relationships are cheap. Everybody now has multiple stepmothers and stepfathers and a string of serial "monogamous" live-ins. It seems like the whole country is an episode of Dr. Phil or Cops, with a small remainder belonging on My 600 Pound Life. 

Not that divorce is always bad, but staying and working and giving up something are not things that seem to be valuable any more.

[arewethereyet]

Maybe it's just me.

Going just by what you've said on this forum, I don't see you as a dangerous type. The main thing is that you are self-aware and thinking about the issues. 

There are people who come to this site every day and act verbally aggressive. They think this is good. They are happy with what they do. Calling you names is how they make the world better. 

Much better to be self-aware and self-critical than to preen oneself by aggressing anonymously. 

The cheap psychoanalysis isn't serious. It's just a method to get at you. 

I've also noticed how easy it is to bring up divorce, or suggest that your wife should have left you, etc. It's so easy to give shallow advice when it's someone else's life we're talking about. This is something foreigners notice about America -- relationships are cheap. Everybody now has multiple stepmothers and stepfathers and a string of serial "monogamous" live-ins. It seems like the whole country is an episode of Dr. Phil or Cops, with a small remainder belonging on My 600 Pound Life. 

Not that divorce is always bad, but staying and working and giving up something are not things that seem to be valuable any more.

Who is remaining in an abusive marriage good for...the abused or the abuser?

Knowing you are a rageball isn't fixing things if you decide to claim it's normal.

[Athene]

Simply blocking a doorway with no physical act or threat is not a criminal offense. 

I believe that blocking any citizen's ability to move freely constitutes arrest, and that preventing someone from leaving a building by blocking a door constitutes false imprisonment.

What you "believe" doesn't matter, benny. There has to be a physical act or threat for it be imprisonment.
Her simply placing herself in front of the exit and saying "I'm not done talking" does not amount to that.

If she brandished a weapon, OR perhaps even simply said "I will kill you if you attempt to leave", OR pushed, shoved or otherwise assaulted as you attempted to leave, then yes, THEN yes, she would have committed a crime.

Okay, we've been on opposite sides frequently in almost every kind of discussion.  But let me ask you what you would do if a man said, "I don't want to talk about this right now, because I'm beginning to feel upset.  I need to get out of here right now, and we can talk about it later."  Would you attempt to prevent him from leaving?

I might stand in front in a door for a few moments, depending on how badly I wanted to finish what I had to say. I wouldn't wrestle with a motherfucker in my doorway like some idiot and attempt to physically restrain him from leaving though.

[Yonadav]

I believe that blocking any citizen's ability to move freely constitutes arrest, and that preventing someone from leaving a building by blocking a door constitutes false imprisonment.

What you "believe" doesn't matter, benny. There has to be a physical act or threat for it be imprisonment.
Her simply placing herself in front of the exit and saying "I'm not done talking" does not amount to that.

If she brandished a weapon, OR perhaps even simply said "I will kill you if you attempt to leave", OR pushed, shoved or otherwise assaulted as you attempted to leave, then yes, THEN yes, she would have committed a crime.

Okay, we've been on opposite sides frequently in almost every kind of discussion.  But let me ask you what you would do if a man said, "I don't want to talk about this right now, because I'm beginning to feel upset.  I need to get out of here right now, and we can talk about it later."  Would you attempt to prevent him from leaving?

I might stand in front in a door for a few moments, depending on how badly I wanted to finish what I had to say. I wouldn't wrestle with a motherfucker in my doorway like some idiot and attempt to physically restrain him from leaving though.

I am 99.9% certain that once I tell someone that I want to leave, they are violating the law if they won't let me past them. They don't have to threaten me. They don't have to have a weapon.

[bennyboy]

Mic drop.

---

Mic drop.

Nice edit to remove the part where you said maybe you think you are shit.

Change the story...change your story.  

Abusive, violent behavior isn't excused because it happens a lot.  Dumb ass.

Nobody excused it.  I'm saying it's natural, and to some degree understandable.  It's a known quantity in the human species.

Nothing we do in society is natural-- not the buildings, or the food, or the computers, or anything else.  Nature is getting malaria and dying at 30. We are very much a species struggling against nature-- that around us, and also that within us.

But there's a whole lot of support for people being whatever they were born as here, because "we can't help what we are."  Well, I also am what I am.  I'm honest about what that is, I try to improve on it, and I think that discussing it is a good way to work toward some understanding in a society that really isn't what any human's evolutionary history has adapted them for.  What would you like me to do-- flip the magic switch that makes me no longer aggressive?  Wake up fucking hating myself because I don't like violence, and I feel it in my blood like a drug sometimes?  The latter is already true, and the former is not possible or I would have done it.


And why are you talking about abuse?  Is throwing a TV in someone's presence 10 years ago an "abusive relationship"?

---

I am 99.9% certain that once I tell someone that I want to leave, they are violating the law if they won't let me past them. They don't have to threaten me. They don't have to have a weapon.

Impeding a person's ability to move freely is arrest. I'm quite certain of that.

[fredd bear]

 I think you need to get out more.

I worked for Social Security (Federal) for 25 years.

That kind of behaviour and worse  is  common in the  (my) community. Sometimes the large object connects. That the target of the tv did not immediately leave suggests a pretty toxic relationship at the very least.

Our friend does not seem to grasp just how close he came to ambulance, police and jail time. At the very least, a course in rage management is probably a good idea.

However, he won't do anything, he doesn't't really want to change.    If that were the case he would already have sought help, rather  than  discussing the issue on an internet forum.  The very last thing he wants is an honest discussion of his feelings, he will reject even mild confrontation. --THAT  opinion comes from a couple of years as a Lifeline counsellor;  I've met him before, more than once.

I didn't throw a TV at my wife.  I vented on the TV instead-- there was no point at which she was in physical danger.  But it was still a loss of control, and I didn't like feeling that way.  I now choose to avoid confrontation completely, and I think that's a pretty good choice.

As for seeking help-- I'm in Korea.  I don't have resources available to me that I'd have in Canada or the US. Your words do hurt a little, though.  "He won't do anything, he doesn't really want to change."  I've specifically described some of the changes I've made, and you never asked if there were others. Literally the only social contact I have is with people in this forum.  Nothing toxic there, thank god!  

But I know what counseling would tell me-- keep a journal of my feelings, figure out what triggers me, and avoid situations that are likely to make me feel frustrated.  Put that pent-up energy into something more productive, like a good long run.  Listen to relaxing music, distract yourself with some entertainment, or otherwise clear out your mind, don't drink alcohol or stimulants.  These are all things that I do, because I'm actively engaged in the process of feeling good and trying to live better every day.

What you're assuming is that in describing an incident that happened about 10 years ago, and in talking about male rage in general, it's never occurred to me to research the issue.  In fact, I haven't been enraged in quite a while-- because I am in fact taking those steps that I can.  For someone in your position, I'd say that kind of prejudice is pretty dangerous.  You are quick to demonize, but didn't ask any of the right kinds of questions first.  Whatever you think your credentials are, you might want to consider going back to that training manual for a refresher, because I'm pretty sure you're not following protocol right now.

And this is kind of what this thread is about-- you don't know anything about what was said, or why.  You don't know anything about my feelings or how I've tried to address them, but you're already giving your "expert" opinion.  As soon as you hear that a man was angry, ever, you've got the word "abuse" on mind.  You've got me all figured out, hey?

 
To be blunt, no, I don't know you at all, nor do I care . 

 This an internet discussion forum, not a self help forum, of which there are literally hundreds around.

I responded to the information you provided.  I was not ,and am not trying to be your counsellor.  This is not an appropriate forum.  I mentioned my experience  to perhaps give my opinion some credibility. It didn't,Ok.
 
It IS clear to me that you are in need of professional help. Any danger is coming from your attempts at self diagnosis and treatment. Eg You have not shown you have any awareness of the cause of your anger issues.  I do not accept any responsibility for your behaviour. If you mental state is that fragile, you need to be in hospital.


That is all I have to say to you on this matter..

[bennyboy]

Mic drop.

---

Mic drop.

Nice edit to remove the part where you said maybe you think you are shit.

Change the story...change your story.  

Abusive, violent behavior isn't excused because it happens a lot.  Dumb ass.

?

Yeah, I think I'm shit, and I've talked about suicidal tendencies in other threads.  There are a couple of days in particular during the past year where cowardice has been the only emotion that kept me alive.  If you think that needs to go on the record, then here it is-- I've talked about it openly in the past, and I'm not ashamed of it. Go ahead and smugly re-drop your mic, nobody's stopping you.

As for "abusive violent behavior," what would that be?  Getting enraged and breaking a TV 10 years ago?  If you think that's the kind of abuse that someone needs to walk away from, then good luck trying to find a life partner.

---

To be blunt, no, I don't know you at all, nor do I care . 

 This an internet discussion forum, not a self help forum, of which there are literally hundreds around.

I responded to the information you provided.  I was not ,and am not trying to be your counsellor.  This is not an appropriate forum.  I mentioned my experience  to perhaps give my opinion some credibility. It didn't,Ok.
 
It IS clear to me that you are in need of professional help. Any danger is coming from your attempts at self diagnosis and treatment. Eg You have not shown you have any awareness of the cause of your anger issues.  I do not accept any responsibility for your behaviour. If you mental state is that fragile, you need to be in hospital.


That is all I have to say to you on this matter..

Except that wasn't all you had to say, was it? You read about 10 lines of a story from 10 years ago, and you had it all figured out, n'est-ce pas? Like how I had no interest in changing my behavior? That a single event, and that my wife hadn't left me, was proof of a "toxic relationship?"

Please tell us more about my feelings and positions which you already know me to have-- it will save me the trouble of describing and talking about them myself!

[Belacqua]

It IS clear to me that you are in need of professional help. Any danger is coming from your attempts at self diagnosis and treatment. Eg You have not shown you have any awareness of the cause of your anger issues.  I do not accept any responsibility for your behaviour. If you mental state is that fragile, you need to be in hospital.


That is all I have to say to you on this matter..

Giving a diagnosis on an anonymous chat site is professional misconduct.

[tackattack]

I hate to break it to you, but dominance hierarchies have been around since before trees. They're not social constructs from the floor up. Social constructs can amplify and reinforce negative feedback loops that are on top of the framework. I believe this is why the term "misogynistic male patriarch" was invented, it's a misnomer though. Only in the minutest minority are the guys out there seeking to subjugate women to secretaries because they fear a challenging opponent. Most are just doing what they feel it takes to get ahead and whatever cost they feel is appropriate. It wouldn't matter if you were a male or a female, but those types tend to pick easier fights. Men are driven to have the best stuff, and some of that stuff man wants is a high quality mate. It may differ from individual, time period and society what the definitions of "stuff" are but one particular drive is the opposite sex. It is definitely objectifying, but could changing women's selection criteria vary the formula enough to shake things up?

And everything in this paragraph is bullshit

concrete denial there Amarok. Lobsters have been around far longer than us. Do you think they learned dominance hierarchies from us? Do you think that this society right now invented dominance heirarchies? Do you think dominance hierarchies play a part in socialization of creatures all over this planet cross-culturaly?

If we as a race are propagating a dominance hierarchy, I would blame the females for giving us men poor goals to bump claws or run for. We may have culturally propitiated a long standing species trait with a patriarchal construct. It might even amplify the problem. The social construct is not the source though, just the source of the current culture and times rage, due to a lack of understanding of the deeper issue.

[Yonadav]

Mic drop.

---

Nice edit to remove the part where you said maybe you think you are shit.

Change the story...change your story.  

Abusive, violent behavior isn't excused because it happens a lot.  Dumb ass.

Nobody excused it.  I'm saying it's natural, and to some degree understandable.  It's a known quantity in the human species.

Nothing we do in society is natural-- not the buildings, or the food, or the computers, or anything else.  Nature is getting malaria and dying at 30.  We are very much a species struggling against nature-- that around us, and also that within us.

But there's a whole lot of support for people being whatever they were born as here, because "we can't help what we are."  Well, I also am what I am.  I'm honest about what that is, I try to improve on it, and I think that discussing it is a good way to work toward some understanding in a society that really isn't what any human's evolutionary history has adapted them for.  What would you like me to do-- flip the magic switch that makes me no longer aggressive?  Wake up fucking hating myself because I don't like violence, and I feel it in my blood like a drug sometimes?  The latter is already true, and the former is not possible or I would have done it.


And why are you talking about abuse?  Is throwing a TV in someone's presence 10 years ago an "abusive relationship"?

Yeah, this is what is bothering me about this discussion. You knew what you had to do to cool off. Your wife was refusing to let you do what you needed to do to cool off. And I am quite certain that what she did was illegal. And it is aggression. You smashed your TV, which is not illegal. But these people just want to pin it all on you, even though you basically did all of the right things.

We are taught to walk away when we are getting too angry. You tried to do that.
We are taught to take out our aggression on inanimate objects and not people when we get too angry. You did that.

There's a divorce from reality here. Human beings experience rage. You tried to use one of the most accepted coping mechanisms for it. You were blocked from doing that. So you resorted to a far less desirable but still 'acceptable' coping mechanisms of venting on an inanimate object. You basically did everything right.

Your right to use your preferred coping mechanism was violated. But these people won't acknowledge that.
You knew when to walk away, and you tried to walk away. That makes you the good guy.