Someone close to me.......

[Athene]

It would seem that this is your pal's method of coping with all of this sudden loss, uncertainty, death a decay.

Well....At least he's not doing smack or crack or meth, or whatever the kids are doing these days. 
I understand that his taking to religion isn't "correct" as far you're concerned, but the truth is there are far worse, more destructive ways that he could be dealing with all of this.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Religious conversion is clearly not the best answer to a stressful situation.  But the idea that religion always makes mental issues worse is rubbish on the face of it.  That loads and loads people have found solace, stress relief and have alleviated depression through religion is unarguable.

And - quite frankly - it doesn't even matter if this is a phony cure or a placebo. Billions and billions of people are religious and are perfectly happy and mentally well adjusted.

Boru

[Brian37]

Being concerned with someone's mental health is not trying to dictate to them or write their future. I do have something to say about this, because I have dealt with this myself. I have been suicidal myself, and I can tell you, it was far worse when I did believe, and back then I came a shitload closer to doing it back then. I am telling you, old mythology is not a replacement for modern psychology/neurology/medicine.

Then suggest they seek professional help.

Without the over-the-top way that you have.

You said you know how they will react because you know how they reacted to stresses in the past.  No, you don't know.  You think you have an idea based on history but time has passed since then and this is a different set of stressors.

Just because you have mental health issues doesn't make you qualified to diagnose or suggest a specific treatment for anyone else.

But watch for that hood and Swastika...

Would love to, but were you not the one who just said leave it alone?

This is a risk. If I push it, it could make things worse, if I don't push it, it could also get worse. I know this person well, and the people this person if finding comfort in may not get her the clinical help they really need. 

And again, I wasn't saying this person was going to go Nazi on me. All I said was that people flock to others for support to fill a void, and find a sense of belonging. Humans evolved to socialize, but when we do form groups, we can create or join a group for all the wrong reasons.

Humans created the ancient Egyptian gods, and were quite successful for 3,000 years, but none of that success made any of the gods real.

---

Religious conversion is clearly not the best answer to a stressful situation.  But the idea that religion always makes mental issues worse is rubbish on the face of it.  That loads and loads people have found solace, stress relief and have alleviated depression through religion is unarguable.

And - quite frankly - it doesn't even matter if this is a phony cure or a placebo. Billions and billions of people are religious and are perfectly happy and mentally well adjusted.

Boru

As it has already been said in this thread by others, saying religion does good does not outweigh the divisions and damage it can cause at the same time. None of that sentence is calling for a forced end of religion. It is simply pointing out that religion does not deserve to be scrutiny free, especially when it is causing harm.

Are there religious people without mental illness? Sure. Are there decent non violent humans who hold a religion? Absolutely. But when I say religion makes mental illness worse, I am talking about those who are mentally ill. And in my youth when I was religious and depressed, it most certainly made things worse. I can remember being at a friend's condo, back in my early 20s, 20 some odd stories up on his balcony, stressed out about a computer class I was taking, looking over the edge, thinking god hated me, thinking how easy it would be to just jump over the railing.

What I see happening to this person I know, isn't really that different than pointing out that religious gay conversion therapy is crap. This person is not gay, but again, this person would be better suited in a medical setting with a professional. Selling someone the idea that an invisible being can cure your ills and sells you the idea you are broken at birth, is not therapy in any clinical sense. It sells the idea that being natural flawed is the cause of sin and evil, and that also has no real clinical value. And selling that idea to a person with mental illness can be very damaging and make it worse.

[arewethereyet]

Brian you are a study group of one. While you may have concern and empathy for this friend your experiences aren’t necessarily theirs.

[Brian37]

Brian you are a study group of one.  While you may have concern and empathy for this friend your experiences aren’t necessarily theirs.

Um no I am not. Rape victims can have different experiences too, but it is still rape. Rape victims can cope differently, but again, it is still rape.

I do know what they are going through. You do not have to have the same nanosecond carbon copy life to go through similar experiences. If you are arguing that people cope differently, that is not my argument.

I have gone through depression losing my father when I was 13. I have had the false sensation of seeing him after his death, and I know how real it felt at the time. I also have had the "outer body" false sensation, and that too felt very real at the time. And I did believe at that time. My belief made it worse, not better. 

I am saying that when you are dealing with mental health issues like ours, you don't use mythology that sells ideas of being broken at birth, or natural flaws being "sin" and use mythology that threatens you with hell. That is not therapy, that is harmful.

[arewethereyet]

Um...whatever.

Rave on...it's what you do.

[Brian37]

Um...whatever.

Rave on...it's what you do.

Call it what you want. But it still remains that old mythology does not explain how humans behave or how our brain/chemistry/neurology and false perceptions happen.  The world is a globe and not flat either, despite the majority of antiquity thinking it was flat.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Brian you are a study group of one.  While you may have concern and empathy for this friend your experiences aren’t necessarily theirs.

Um no I am not. Rape victims can have different experiences too, but it is still rape. Rape victims can cope differently, but again, it is still rape.

I do know what they are going through. You do not have to have the same nanosecond carbon copy life to go through similar experiences. If you are arguing that people cope differently, that is not my argument.

I have gone through depression losing my father when I was 13. I have had the false sensation of seeing him after his death, and I know how real it felt at the time. I also have had the "outer body" false sensation, and that too felt very real at the time. And I did believe at that time. My belief made it worse, not better. 

I am saying that when you are dealing with mental health issues like ours, you don't use mythology that sells ideas of being broken at birth, or natural flaws being "sin" and use mythology that threatens you with hell. That is not therapy, that is harmful.

I don't think the cause was being addressed, rather the ways of coping with it.  For example, for some rape victims counselling is an efficient method of coping with the traumatic experience.  For others, it does nothing and can even drive them deeper into depression.  But I don't think anyone would make the claim, 'Counselling always makes the trauma of rape worse.'  Similarly, the idea that religion always makes mental illness worse is, at best, a specious claim.

You're claiming that depression is always worsened by a religious conversion, that OCD is always worsened by a religious conversion, that SAD is always worsened by a religious conversion, etc.  That's a pretty sweeping claim, so you'll understand if I ask you for evidence.

I am saying that when you are dealing with mental health issues like ours, you don't use mythology that sells ideas of being broken at birth, or natural flaws being "sin" and use mythology that threatens you with hell. That is not therapy, that is harmful.

Yet that same religion teaches you that you are loved, that you can be forgiven, that you should be charitable.  Aren't these at least potential pluses for someone (like your friend) who's having a rough go of it?

Boru

[Succubus]

This is a risk. If I push it, it could make things worse, if I don't push it, it could also get worse. I know this person well, and the people this person if finding comfort in may not get her the clinical help they really need.

Brian, with respect you do seem to thrive on drama and it's usually drama of your own making, you can't fight all the worlds wrongs but you appear to be doing just that. Yes some years in your life have evidently been pretty fucking miserable but hay we all have our stories to tell.
Instead of raging against the machine why not become part of the solution and take some sort of course in counselling that way it may become easier to express empathy with those you choose to help. You don't have to become a Harley street psychiatrist, just a good listener but first you must stop being so judgemental. Yes, religion is crabs on the balls of civilisation but constantly raving about it won't help you or those you are trying to help.
Choose your battles. Know when to walk away.

[Brian37]

This is a risk. If I push it, it could make things worse, if I don't push it, it could also get worse. I know this person well, and the people this person if finding comfort in may not get her the clinical help they really need.

Brian, with respect you do seem to thrive on drama and it's usually drama of your own making, you can't fight all the worlds wrongs but you appear to be doing just that. Yes some years in your life have evidently been pretty fucking miserable but hay we all have our stories to tell.
Instead of raging against the machine why not become part of the solution and take some sort of course in counselling that way it may become easier to express empathy with those you choose to help. You don't have to become a Harley street psychiatrist, just a good listener but first you must stop being so judgemental. Yes, religion is crabs on the balls of civilisation but constantly raving about it won't help you or those you are trying to help.
Choose your battles. Know when to walk away.

Theism thrives on drama. Theism is simply the Jerry Springer of antiquity. I am not trying to right all the wrongs in the world for simply pointing out bad logic, and being concerned with someone close to me.

I do choose my battles. I will certainly take a Martin Luther King Jr, and a Malala or an Ann Frank. But we are not talking about that. I am talking about mental illness. And regardless  family or friends, I have seen how religion can and does negatively affect the mentally ill.

I doubt you could get the survivors of Jim Jones, or Heaven's  gate to argue, "Meh, what are you going to do."

I do know this person and even without joining a cult, or a terrorist group, which I do not think they would, I do know that their mental health issues could cause them to make it worse. This person is a very kind and empathetic person. I simply see them as vulnerable and being feed bad logic in the form of platitudes and cliches that will not help the core issues they have.