Dem debates

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Sorry, I was under the impression that, underTrumpian policy, asylum seekers are returned to Mexico to await a decision on their asylum request.  If so, this is in direct violation of US and international law.

Boru

As near as I can tell I'm  not responsible for Trump's antics - any more than half the Border Patrol is responsible for some group of asshat's Facebook posts.

Except when you stereotype - as you are wont to do....

I didn't say you were responsible for Trump's antics, but you seem to be defending them.  If you're not and I'm misreading you, I'll apologize.

That 'group of asshat's' constitutes a little less than half of your Border Patrol. It isn't a stereotype, just simple arithmetic.

Boru

[Mister Agenda]

Boru was even kind enough to put 'person' in all caps, and you come up with this drivel as a retort?

You just don't fucking get it...

I get the difference between a person and a parrot....

[onlinebiker]

As near as I can tell I'm  not responsible for Trump's antics - any more than half the Border Patrol is responsible for some group of asshat's Facebook posts.

Except when you stereotype - as you are wont to do....

I didn't say you were responsible for Trump's antics, but you seem to be defending them.  If you're not and I'm misreading you, I'll apologize.

That 'group of asshat's' constitutes a little less than half of your Border Patrol. It isn't a stereotype, just simple arithmetic.

Boru

Bullshit.

There is no real evidence to indicate that it's that widespread.

You have never been part of such a group. You do not know how things work. The idea of a conspiracy (and yes - it would be a conspiracy)  involving half a department of government is so ludicrous it's laughable.

It's about as likely as NASA faking the moon landing.

[Aegon]

I didn't say you were responsible for Trump's antics, but you seem to be defending them.  If you're not and I'm misreading you, I'll apologize.

That 'group of asshat's' constitutes a little less than half of your Border Patrol. It isn't a stereotype, just simple arithmetic.

Boru

Bullshit.

There is no real evidence to indicate that it's that widespread.

You have never been part of such a group. You do not know how things work. The idea of a conspiracy (and yes - it would be a conspiracy)  involving half a department of government is so ludicrous it's laughable.

It's about as likely as NASA faking the moon landing.

No it's not, man. You know it's not as likely as NASA faking the goddamn moon landing. It's much more likely. Why? Because we know how poorly these migrants, of all ages, are being treated. We know they're not being provided proper care... being stuffed in rooms way over capacity, not being allowed to shower for weeks, not being provided basic necessities that even prisoners of war are given, stuck in the same rooms as those with the flu with the only protection against widespread illness being surgical masks, being told to drink out of toilets if they're thirsty (4 different members of Congress backed that quote up - if you don't believe them you should give a good reason why they would lie about such a thing). We also know that, in this sort of situation, psychological studies tell us that those with the power can quickly lose their empathetic side and see those under "their care" as subhuman. In fact, in virtually every situation where there is a prisoner/captive situation with little to no oversight, there has been awful abuse. A great read would be The Lucifer Effect by Phillip Zimbardo, where he outlines both the studies and real-life examples of how power dynamics can quickly make those in charge callous and uncaring, therefore abusive.

Maybe not all the BP agents are sexist or whatever they were doing in the Facebook group. But when you look at the conditions at these facilities, and you know what can occur in these situations without proper humane oversight... you've got to be fucking kidding me that it's "as likely as the moon landing."

There are people living in conditions that terrorist organizations would deem human rights violations, from what former al-Qaeda and ISIS POWs say. Why is stereotyping Border Patrol agents a bigger issue to you than that?

Look, there's a lot of information about this coming out and I'm sure there's some misinformation. Yes, stereotyping is bad. No, probably not all or even half of Border Patrol agents are evil. But you're seriously downplaying this whole thing, and you must know it.












^ Context for the "shampoo": that's what one woman being held in the facility was given to wash her whole body for a 15-day period.

[onlinebiker]

There' s no doubt It's an ugly situation - and you have to feel bad for those caught up in it - 

But you can't take actions that will make matters worse.

If you think it's bad now - turn all those people loose for " humanitarian reasons" ...

We' d be lucky If the planet doesn't get it's rotation reorientated 90 degrees when the whole of Central and South America beat feet heading north for the border. (Chill out. It's a bit of absurdium).

The numbers increased - especially minors - when it became apparent that bringing kids made it more likely to gain entrance ( if only temporary). 

Open the gates - it' 'll get insane..

---

[Foxaèr]

Vote for the cute gay one.



*swoons*

[onlinebiker]

And ---

Scale.

As I pointed out yesterday - the Border Patrol is 2 /3 of the size of NY City PD.

On an average day - NYCPD makes about 650 arrests.

The border Patrol - ON AVERAGE about 700. 

Over an area many many times that of NYC.

BUT....

Right now isn't average on the border - where they have been making around 4600 arrests per day.

This would be the equivalent of NYPD confronting a riot - every day.

If you can't understand why they have a problem, I can't help you....

---

Vote for the cute gay one.



*swoons*

I dunno if it'  a good thing or bad --  but I looked a lot like that for about a year out of boot camp.....


Heh

[The Grand Nudger]

It seems like running concentration camps might be the sort of thing that makes matters worse. You know, for everyone “caught up in it”. Including the people who fund and operate concentration camps.

This is getting absurd. What Bad Thing ™, exactly, do you think will happen if we cut out this ridiculous shit?

[Aegon]

There' s no doubt It's an ugly situation - and you have to feel bad for those caught up in it - 

But you can't take actions that will make matters worse.

If you think it's bad now - turn all those people loose for " humanitarian reasons" ...

We' d be lucky If the planet doesn't get it's rotation reorientated 90 degrees when the whole of Central and South America beat feet heading north for the border. (Chill out. It's a bit of absurdium).

The numbers increased - especially minors - when it became apparent that bringing kids made it more likely to gain entrance ( if only temporary). 

Open the gates - it' 'll get insane..

---

I'm being careful not to make any sort of suggestions or judgement on immigration policy overall because I don't have a damn clue what to do about it. I'm concerned with human rights violations more than anything. The $4.59B border aid package was just signed into law yesterday; hopefully it will provide greater funding to the border in order to be able to pay for amenities that don't violate international law. But more than money, they need increased oversight. You can throw all the cash you want at them, but it's deeper than that. It's not just about resources. It's about the officials themselves, and the dehumanization of these people. They are literally just people... human beings... and this issue is so divisive because it's not a debate on immigration policy; it's become a debate on morality. Is coming here "illegally" enough to justify this sort of treatment? Of course not. How do we ensure it won't keep happening? That's the actual question