Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:14 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2019 at 2:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If you want to learn about model based control, google it. I know you have the internet. It seems to me you should have done this sort of research -before- you claimed that there was no evolutionary explanation for the relationship between vision and consciousness, or any evolutionary account of how they arose and functioned.
There is. Can johnism explain that gap in your knowledge?
Can johnism explain why you don’t find these sorts of objections, that you find competent as criticisms of evolutionary biology, equally compelling when applied to johnism?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1697
Threads: 15
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:20 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2019 at 2:22 pm by John 6IX Breezy.)
(August 5, 2019 at 2:14 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If you want to learn about model based control, google it. I know you have the internet. It seems to me you should have done this sort of research -before- you claimed that there was no evolutionary explanation for the relationship between vision and consciousness, or any evolutionary account of how they arose and functioned.
There is. Can johnism explain that gap in your knowledge?
Ahh google--the end of social discourse lol. I don't believe I've claimed there is no evolutionary explanation for the relationship between vision and consciousness, if I did I wouldn't be asking for it. Will you at least meet me half way, and recommend your favorite article on model based control? I'll gladly read it so we can continue the discussion. I want us to be on the same page, so just finding a random article on google won't be useful.
Posts: 2872
Threads: 8
Joined: October 4, 2017
Reputation:
22
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:21 pm
(August 4, 2019 at 7:36 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (August 4, 2019 at 7:22 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: It doesn’t matter why you’re proposing the thing you are, the proposal is not a part of evolutionary theory or any biological fact.
Determinism and fatalism are not interchangeable. As you refer to their being a “set of tracks” that would be fatalism.
Then lets agree to disagree. I fail to see how selection and adaptation doesn't lead to states of homeostasis between an organism and its environment, and you fail to give any good arguments against it besides repeating its not a biological fact. This wasn't even the point of OP so its not a hill I care to die on.
Really? You are the one claiming that evolution must have some "goal". You have neither justified that claim nor stated what that goal might be. All you have is some vague handwaving about something unidentified. What is anyone else to make of that? Allah? Zeus? Thor? What?
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:22 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2019 at 2:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yet another gap in johnism, then.
Johnism seems to be entirely made of gaps, come to think of it. Is that a problem for johnism?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:23 pm
I guess a well versed psychologist would know about the effect that Dunning & Kruger did legit soft science. Soft, still, quite enlighting. Explains a lot about different educational systems.
Posts: 1697
Threads: 15
Joined: August 2, 2019
Reputation:
6
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:26 pm
(August 5, 2019 at 2:21 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: (August 4, 2019 at 7:36 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: Then lets agree to disagree. I fail to see how selection and adaptation doesn't lead to states of homeostasis between an organism and its environment, and you fail to give any good arguments against it besides repeating its not a biological fact. This wasn't even the point of OP so its not a hill I care to die on.
Really? You are the one claiming that evolution must have some "goal". You have neither justified that claim nor stated what that goal might be. All you have is some vague handwaving about something unidentified. What is anyone else to make of that? Allah? Zeus? Thor? What?
I don't know if I've used the word goal, perhaps I did. I thought I've used the terms destination, states of rest, homeostasis, balance, equilibrium, etc. But my memory is faulty, so maybe I did use the word goal.
Posts: 2872
Threads: 8
Joined: October 4, 2017
Reputation:
22
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:27 pm
(August 4, 2019 at 8:56 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (August 4, 2019 at 8:37 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Go away?
Mutations don’t go away, the creatures and populations carrying them may go extinct or fail to pass them on.
Mutations aren’t wanted or unwanted. There is no want. They happen.
Again, there is no destination. You keep talking about perhaps this perhaps that. “Destinations” simply isn’t how we observe biology to act. Being incapable of adaptation isn’t even a perceptual kind of destination or improvement or balance. It’s just the text on a populations tombstone.
Your perhaps-es refer to some other world, some other biology. That’s not evolutionary theory’s problem.
Mutations do happen, but for reasons that will be diminished and protected against, as can be observed with codon degeneracy. Destinations do exist, as can be observed by the interplay between selection and adaptation. But again, agree to disagree. No way. You are claiming that an evolutionary "destination" exists. Therefore it is your burden to demonstrate such a destination exists. Put up or shut up.
Posts: 67166
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:28 pm
Can johnism explain gaps in your memory or gaps in your inferences? Can johnism explain gaps in your consistency or gaps in your continuity?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 86
Threads: 0
Joined: June 26, 2019
Reputation:
0
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:39 pm
(August 5, 2019 at 12:57 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: If it seems self explanatory, then how could it be a gap in any account, including an evolutionary one?
No. No. You think it’s something that requires explaining. Additionally, you think theories like those -should- have such explanations. Well, evolutionary biology has a credible explanation for it, johnism has a gap.
What should we make of that? Shall I refer to your other previous statements for inspiration?
No, the theory of evolution was inspired by Satan.
Posts: 2872
Threads: 8
Joined: October 4, 2017
Reputation:
22
RE: Vision and Evolution (A Critique of Dawkins)
August 5, 2019 at 2:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 5, 2019 at 2:42 pm by Abaddon_ire.)
(August 5, 2019 at 2:26 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: (August 5, 2019 at 2:21 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Really? You are the one claiming that evolution must have some "goal". You have neither justified that claim nor stated what that goal might be. All you have is some vague handwaving about something unidentified. What is anyone else to make of that? Allah? Zeus? Thor? What?
I don't know if I've used the word goal, perhaps I did. I thought I've used the terms destination, states of rest, homeostasis, balance, equilibrium, etc. But my memory is faulty, so maybe I did use the word goal.
Nope, that was MY word. You preferred the word "destination".
So pony up. What is the "destination"? Can you tell me? Or not?
ETA: Funny how he is quibbling about "goal" and "destination". Almost as if he thinks semantics are sufficient to make his god real.
|
