God, Energy and Matter

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

So, the maggoty buffalo dung is just as important as your sick child?  Think about what that means, what kind of a person it makes you.

Boru

[Lek]

So, the maggoty buffalo dung is just as important as your sick child?  Think about what that means, what kind of a person it makes you.

Boru

We put the sick child first, of course, but when it comes to what is in store for the universe the dung could be very important. We view everything from our small, limited perspective. God knows from the ultimate perspective. This may seem like a silly analogy, but it's very true. If George Washington had slipped on a pile of horse dung and cracked his skull immediately before crossing the Delaware, we could have lost the Revolutionary War and now be a British colony.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

So, the maggoty buffalo dung is just as important as your sick child?  Think about what that means, what kind of a person it makes you.

Boru

We put the sick child first, of course, but  when it comes to what is in store for the universe the dung could be very  important.  We view everything from our small, limited perspective. God knows from the ultimate perspective.  This may seem like a silly analogy, but it's very true. If George Washington had slipped on a pile of horse dung and  cracked his skull immediately before crossing the Delaware, we could have lost the Revolutionary War and now be a British colony.

Of course we view everything from a 'small, limited perspective' - we are unable to do otherwise.

But you 'everything is equal' stance is still rubbish.  Thank you for admitting that.

Boru

[Lek]

We put the sick child first, of course, but  when it comes to what is in store for the universe the dung could be very  important.  We view everything from our small, limited perspective. God knows from the ultimate perspective.  This may seem like a silly analogy, but it's very true. If George Washington had slipped on a pile of horse dung and  cracked his skull immediately before crossing the Delaware, we could have lost the Revolutionary War and now be a British colony.

Of course we view everything from a 'small, limited perspective' - we are unable to do otherwise.

But you 'everything is equal' stance is still rubbish.  Thank you for admitting that.

Boru

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't admit that.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Of course we view everything from a 'small, limited perspective' - we are unable to do otherwise.

But you 'everything is equal' stance is still rubbish.  Thank you for admitting that.

Boru

Don't put words in my mouth.  I didn't admit that.

Of course you did: 'We put the sick child first'.  In that instance and in those circumstances, the child is subjectively more important to you than the dung.  Therefore, not everything is of equal importance.

Boru

[Lek]

Don't put words in my mouth.  I didn't admit that.

Of course you did: 'We put the sick child first'.  In that instance and in those circumstances, the child is subjectively more important to you than the dung.  Therefore, not everything is of equal importance.

Boru

I said we put the sick child first because he or she seems more important than the dung, but we can't objectively determine that as it applies to the universe. God, himself being the creater sustainer of the universe could determine that. It may well be the best choice, but we can't determine that from our view of the universe. We act according to our morality.

[Nay_Sayer]

Of course you did: 'We put the sick child first'.  In that instance and in those circumstances, the child is subjectively more important to you than the dung.  Therefore, not everything is of equal importance.

Boru

I said we put  the sick child first because he or she seems more important than the dung, but  we can't objectively determine that as it applies to the universe.  God, himself being the creater sustainer of the universe could determine that.  It may well be the best choice, but we can't determine that from our view of the universe.  We act according to our morality.

It's seems quite apapros that you're main points revolve around shit.

FSM has no universal plans or design, How could it?, It made everything by accident during a cosmic kegger.

[Deesse23]

Thats a big, fat non sequitur. Why should the universe in its behaviour or properties resemble you of all things in the universe? Why should the universe not be like a quasar, of which there are countless more than people and who have unfathomably more impact on it?

Stars are burning out all the time. I'm sure the part of the universe that is closer to a quasar is highly effected by it.  It has it's place in the universe as I have mine.  My family depends on me.  I depend on the one who sustains the universe.  I don't see why a quasar is more important to the universe than a human being or anything else.  It's just a functioning part of the whole universe.

It was you who claimed the universe had to be like you because you have intentions. Talk to a quasar not to me about importance in the universe, if you ever get close enough to one. I, unlike you dont suffer from hybris to compare myself to quasars who are effective all across the known universe, while you cant shout across a football field on a stormy day. By the way, stars burning out have nothing to do with quasars.

The point still remains: All quasars in the universe have indefinitely more impact on the universe than all humans. Why should the universe care about Quasars or humans in terms of what its properties are? The fact that some quasar or you exist in the universe has no impact on what the universe is.

You simply dont get it, that wishful thinking doesnt work. The universe is what it is, not matter what you like it to be, or what a Quasar likes it to be. Just because your life has any (questionable) purpose, does not mean the universe has. Just because a Quasar has property "x" does not mean the universe has property "x".

[The Grand Nudger]

The tendency to explain or perceive by reference to purpose is hardwired into human biology.

Properly, that sense of purpose is a biological property of hss. As are the properties of intentionality and personhood. That sort of thinking is a schema by which we apprehend things according to their desirability and usefulness, to us.

We do it from childhood onward. In defense of the schema, we live in a world choked with intentional utility. Our lives have revolved around building structures and tools since homo habilis. In a powerful sense, it’s a true and authentic human apprehension.

We’ve progressed a great deal over time, in that regard, and our beliefs about the divine underwent a similar transformation. Totems and flaked tools and honor-warrior gods have given way to a completely artificial environment with The Grand Engineer as its designer.

There’s a confluence between desirability and usefulness, and what the natural world provides. We can see a spruce tree as a pallet of wall studs. That’s probably why watchmaker arguments of any kind are so popular. We’re watchmakers who can appreciate the natural beauty of a tree as another watchmakers work. A watchmaker like us, however we happen to be in that time and place. Just more competent, working on larger projects.

[polymath257]

So, the maggoty buffalo dung is just as important as your sick child?  Think about what that means, what kind of a person it makes you.

Boru

We put the sick child first, of course, but  when it comes to what is in store for the universe the dung could be very  important.  We view everything from our small, limited perspective. God knows from the ultimate perspective.  This may seem like a silly analogy, but it's very true. If George Washington had slipped on a pile of horse dung and  cracked his skull immediately before crossing the Delaware, we could have lost the Revolutionary War and now be a British colony.

Let me say it one more time. *NOTHING* on Earth has much impact on a cosmic scale. Neither the child nor the dung has *cosmic* impact.  Even if the Revolutionary war had turned out a different way, from a cosmic viewpoint it is irrelevant.

You *want* there to be purpose. And, on the scale of us tiny humans, you *do* have purpose (I assume). But the purpose you experience because you are part of a social group of great apes doesn't mean the universe as a whole either has purpose nor that it should.

To expect to be able to generalize from the feeling of purpose you feel to the universe at large is, I repeat, the height of ego.