Kobe Bryant dead from Helicopter crash

[The Grand Nudger]

This is all really fascinating..but, if we're still even remotely discussing white supremacy and Kobe..Kobe benefited from it.

[Athene]

Athene wrote:

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As Huggy pointed out earlier, the majority of White Americans voted for Trump. Like it or not, that speaks volumes as to just how far we've come. 
Lol...So far, that the majority of Whites wish to that ensure White Supremacy continues to reigns supreme in this country; no matter the cost to themselves.

As far as the Whites who didn't vote for Trump go: People can barely engage in a discussion about structural racism with the self-proclaimed I'm-Not-Racist ones without most of them blowing a goddamned brain gasket. Sure, there are plenty of liberals and egalitarians among them who will shake their heads and tsk tsk at all the appropriate moments; And they may express genuine disdain for blatant acts of racial violence or mistreatment. But most of them will invariably become defensive and take to derailing any substantive dialogue surrounding complex racial issues by crying or howling that being personally attacked, and vehemently castigating Blacks who attempt to cast light on such matter as victims, liars, and the "real" racists for talking about racism in any context, historical or otherwise, in an attempt to shut that shit down.

Call me crazy, but I think it's safe to say that most of these folks will never possess the desire to confront racial injustice beyond superficial measures, much less the will. There's no way that people who become that distressed in the face of having mere conversations about racial inequality, are going to go all in in disrupting the racial status quo in this country. They're much too vested in clinging to lie that such dreadful matters are "mostly behind us" as a nation--and quite likely, harbor significant fears as to what true equality might mean for them as topmost members of the racial hierarchy.
 
So yeah, we most definitely disagree. I think the number of White folks who sincerely want to see an end to systemic White Supremacy and are willing to work towards that goal are an extremely small minority; A fraction of a fraction of a fraction. A tip of the hat to those unicorns, for sure--But there aren't enough of them to imagine that there's some wealth of White support for racial justice in U.S.
Personally though, this doesn't make me feel hopeless about the future because more and more Black people are waking up to the realization that the only serious allies we have in this country is ourselves--and that if we wait on Uncle Sam, the goddamned Democrats, or collective White America to come around and aid us in seeking an end to the system of oppression that they created and/or benefit from, we can expect another 400 years of the same fuckshit. 

Though undoubtedly a sobering realization for some at first, it's actually a good thing because it makes the path forward much clearer.

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Is that even true? Did the majority of white people in this country vote for Trump?

This sounds a whole lot to me like a refusal to believe that it's possible there are white people who aren't racist. Like, no matter what we do or say, you will never stop judging us for being white. Forgive me if that's a racially motivated position and I notice it. It's not that you're talking about racism. It's that you appear to lack any self-awareness when it comes to this topic. 

You know, it's possible to have genuine disdain for all forms of racism AND be offended by diatribes like this one. You do know that it is possible for a black person to offend a white person and okay for a white person to say, "I'm uncomfortable that you stereotype me."

Crazy. I get that it probably comes from some deep-rooted shit that goes beyond both of us, but you think very little of white people and lump us all together. How do you know what the average white person is willing to do? You don't, and even if you do, you can't assume we're all the average white person.

 

Well, things will stay the way they are if we don't get a majority of people to work toward true equity, and black people aren't a majority, so maybe dust off that old chip on your shoulder and try to see past Trumpicans to the rest of us. Sure, I don't spend every waking moment campaigning for equality because I have a mortgage and a life, but you'd probably be surprised to find that I'm actually not afraid of equality or to talk about racial inequality. I'm not afraid to vote in minority interests. I'm not afraid of the big white money men, and I'm not afraid of White Supremacists. I really, really don't enjoy thinly-veiled disdain for white people any more than I enjoy it for black people, though. Man, the blanket statements are so rampant in these arguments. I don't know how you can't see it as stereotyping at the very least.

I just want to follow up by saying I have no idea what it's like to be black in America, especially this America. We have loads of black-American literature from other eras to which we can turn, but right now you're living a new black reality.

Nowhere in that post did I state that I don't think it's possible that there are White people are aren't racist. 
If you'd read it sans the knee-jerk hysteria, perhaps might have noticed that what I was actually doing was detailing some of the additional reasons why I think the majority of Whites aren't particularly moved to seek racial equality---none of which necessitate racist intent.

With that being said--
Since you offered such a passionate commentary (and mischaracterization) of my position, I think I'll go ahead an take this opportunity to offer my humble critique of yours.

I'll tell you why I personally find your approach to racial injustice problematic: It's practically rampant with you bemoaning not receiving due and just adulation for your "enlightenment", denialism, derailing dialogue with paranoid claims of being personally attacked, submitting endless caveats in which you dictate is to be discussed, what history you think is or isn't relevant, and redefining and ultimately downplaying White Supremacy by attempting to manipulate others approaching terms that make you feel that make you feel less "icky" and stressed.

Guilt by association by virtue of having of White skin is not why I regard folks like you as such sketchy allies; It's your unironic complicity with WS, unintentional though it may be.
It demands that people give deference to your fragility and "go easy" on White Supremacy so as to spare you unpleasant feelings, when people's lives are on the line.

And that ain't gonna happen, Shell. 
People with a grip of how this shit actually operates knows goddamned well that silence and ignorance provides WS with cover.

So yes, to expect folks who are that disposed to complicity can be relied upon as "fierce allies" in dismantling/resisting the system is rather ludicrous, IMO. 

Lol...sue me.


Anyhow, that's my take. Worth every cent you spent on it, I'm sure.

[Mr.wizard]

The problem the Shell is pointing out is that you want to lump all of white people together, telling us what we think, what our intentions are, whats important to us, and what we are willing to do. You don't know me, you don't know a damn thing about me, yet you sit there telling me about me, it's insulting and I really don't see how it's not racist on your part.

[Athene]

The problem the Shell is pointing out is that you want to lump all of white people together, telling us what we think, what our intentions are, whats important to us, and what we are willing to do. You don't know me, you don't know a damn thing about me, yet you sit there telling me about me, it's insulting and I really don't see how it's not racist on your part.

That post wan't even addressed to you, Wizard.
Of course, now that your fragile self has responded to it by whelping that you're being personally attacked and blubbering nonsense, it would appear that shoe does actually fit though.

Oh, yeah...this line-up is great. What was I thinking?

Go Team!

[Mr.wizard]

The problem the Shell is pointing out is that you want to lump all of white people together, telling us what we think, what our intentions are, whats important to us, and what we are willing to do. You don't know me, you don't know a damn thing about me, yet you sit there telling me about me, it's insulting and I really don't see how it's not racist on your part.

That post wan't even addressed to you, Wizard.

Of course, now that you're fragile self has responded to it by whelping that you're personally attacked and blubbering nonsense, it would appear that shoe does actually fit though.

Oh, yeah...this line-up is great. Go Team!

Sure it was Im a white guy and since you lump all white people together you were talking to me. I guess that just shows you the problem you create when you lump all white people together. But keep going your doing great bud, lol!

[The Grand Nudger]

White supremacy does use the white masses, not just the white racists, and their invocation of deference as cover. This isn't the only non-racist plank of american society that white supremacy leverages for effect. To return to an earlier analogy, racism is the water. You don't have to be the racist shark to be a functional part of the white supremacist structure.

Arguably, non racists and crypto-racists are more useful to white supremacy than the hood wearing tiki torch burning set.

Athene can only have her opinions validated when, in speaking of how a person can be useful to white supremacy without intentionally meaning to be - this results in a sense of personal insult and condemnation which expresses itself as a reflexive counter accusation of racism. In this case, she can't talk about a reality of how white supremacy operates in the world and where it draws it's warrant, cover, and innumerable other goods. The good non racist whites have shut that down as personally insulting to them. I suppose it should be, but maybe we should be personally insulted by how the white supremacists are using us, rather than being angry at the person who pointed out that and how they are using us?

[Mr.wizard]

White supremacy does use the white masses, not just the white racists, and their invocation of deference as cover. This isn't the only non-racist plank of american society that white supremacy leverages for effect. To return to an earlier analogy, racism is the water. You don't have to be the racist shark to be a functional part of the white supremacist structure.

Arguably, non racists and crypto-racists are more useful to white supremacy than the hood wearing tiki torch burning set.

Athene can only have her opinions validated when, in speaking of how a person can be useful to white supremacy without intentionally meaning to be - this results in a sense of personal insult and condemnation which expresses itself as a reflexive counter accusation of racism. In this case, she can't talk about a reality of how white supremacy operates in the world and where it draws it's warrant, cover, and innumerable other goods. The good non racist whites have shut that down as personally insulting to them. I suppose it should be, but maybe we should be personally insulted by how the white supremacists are using us, rather than being angry at the person who pointed out that and how they are using us?

Not a problem with me I fully acknowledge that. The insulting part is telling me what " White people think " and the intentions of White people. I don't dispute the fact that white supramcy exists and that Im part of the system even if its unwillingly.

[The Grand Nudger]

It isn't impossible to get an impression of what white people think. We're a vocal bunch with pretty much every media outlet devoted to covering our various opinions.

[Mr.wizard]

It isn't impossible to get an impression of what white people think. We're a vocal bunch with pretty much every media outlet devoted to covering our various opinions.

But we are talking directly to eachother, why do we need to go to what white people think, its frustrating to have your personal opinion discounted and then told what my opinion is.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure, but again, for Athene, this conversation serves to validate her specific concerns. If the good non racist whites respond in the manner that she expects, which is useful to white supremacy - then her point has been made.