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Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 7:51 am
Greetings! I am currently at a crossroads in my life regarding my beliefs in the supernatural. I do not really want to go into it at this point. It is too messy to hash all out over a forum thread. Anyway, I have listened to a lot of Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss lately as well as the Atheist Experience. At this point, I am not really a proponent of Atheism or a specific religion. I am still a member of the Orthodox Christian Church.
I came across some videos online regarding a purported miracle that is claimed to take place every year on Holy Saturday before Easter. Basically the Orthodox Bishop of Jerusalem goes into the claimed tomb of Jesus. Before hand he is searched by an Israeli police officer for any lighters, matches, etc. He then emerges from the tomb with a lit candle that is said not to burn the skin for the first 20 or so minutes after the bishop emerges. Supposedly scientific research has been performed and the fire's temperature has been taken and it burns cool.
I have a video that has a pilgrim in Jerusalem holding the fire on his skin and running it through his beard. Please take a look at the video and respond with your thoughts. How is this individual's beard not even slightly harmed by the fire? Is there a scientific explanation for any of this? I have heard people claim that it could be white phosphorus that spontaneously combusts, but that would still involve heat.
Thank you in advance for any responses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kZu87tyqJ4
Here is also a video that discusses the supposed scientific study of this alleged miracle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgEL7kiMu40
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 8:29 am
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2020 at 8:30 am by Fake Messiah.)
(February 9, 2020 at 7:51 am)anonymous89 Wrote: I have a video that has a pilgrim in Jerusalem holding the fire on his skin and running it through his beard. Please take a look at the video and respond with your thoughts. How is this individual's beard not even slightly harmed by the fire?
Well if I was trying to pull it I would make my beard wet (or put some other fire retardant) and I think it would shield the beard for few seconds from a small fire. Same with the skin. It is similar like licking your fingers and then putting the candle flame off by pinching the flame.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 8:39 am
Wow a priest takes an unlit candle out of view and returns with a lit candle, miracle! The explanation just seems so obvious.
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 8:49 am
"He is searched by an Israeli police officer"...
Are you familiar with the term "shill"?
If not - look it up.
Then decide which is more likely - shill or "magic".
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 8:51 am
(February 9, 2020 at 8:39 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Wow a priest takes an unlit candle out of view and returns with a lit candle, miracle! The explanation just seems so obvious.
Easy killer. You seemed to not have read anything else in the op. It is non-religious people like you that I don't take seriously.
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 8:58 am
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2020 at 9:00 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(February 9, 2020 at 8:51 am)anonymous89 Wrote: (February 9, 2020 at 8:39 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Wow a priest takes an unlit candle out of view and returns with a lit candle, miracle! The explanation just seems so obvious.
Easy killer. You seemed to not have read anything else in the op. It is non-religious people like you that I don't take seriously.
If you don't take non-religious people seriously, why did you come to an atheist message board to ask about your alleged miracle? Are you actively engaged in a non-serious search for non-serious opinions? I mean, you can do what you like, but it seems a tremendous time-waster.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 9:00 am
(February 9, 2020 at 8:49 am)onlinebiker Wrote: "He is searched by an Israeli police officer"...
Are you familiar with the term "shill"?
If not - look it up.
Then decide which is more likely - shill or "magic".
It is definitely possible. From what I've heard though, Jews and Christians don't tend to get along in Israel.
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 9:03 am
(February 9, 2020 at 8:51 am)anonymous89 Wrote: (February 9, 2020 at 8:39 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Wow a priest takes an unlit candle out of view and returns with a lit candle, miracle! The explanation just seems so obvious.
Easy killer. You seemed to not have read anything else in the op. It is non-religious people like you that I don't take seriously.
Sure I read it, it just isn't very compelling or mysterious. Your not even asking the right question, the claim is that god is lighting a candle and making it burn cool for a few minutes. It's up to the people making that claim to prove it, it's not on me to find alternate explanations. Assume everything that happens at "The Holy Fire" is confirmed and we don't know the explanation, it still doesn't prove that god exists or that he is lighting candles.
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 9:03 am
(February 9, 2020 at 8:58 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (February 9, 2020 at 8:51 am)anonymous89 Wrote: Easy killer. You seemed to not have read anything else in the op. It is non-religious people like you that I don't take seriously.
If you don't take non-religious people seriously, why did you come to an atheist message board to ask about your alleged miracle?
Boru
I definitely did not say that I don't take non-religious people seriously, as I am also not religious. If you read what I wrote, I said that I do not take religious people"like you" seriously. Snarky people and disrespectful comments that have not been thought out do not deserve to go without a comment. I hope I have made myself clear and do not have to explain myself any further
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RE: Question about a specific claimed miracle
February 9, 2020 at 9:08 am
(February 9, 2020 at 9:03 am)anonymous89 Wrote: (February 9, 2020 at 8:58 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If you don't take non-religious people seriously, why did you come to an atheist message board to ask about your alleged miracle?
Boru
I definitely did not say that I don't take non-religious people seriously, as I am also not religious. If you read what I wrote, I said that I do not take religious people"like you" seriously. Snarky people and disrespectful comments that have not been thought out do not deserve to go without a comment. I hope I have made myself clear and do not have to explain myself any further
What was wrong with my comment? The point is if the priest is taking an unlit candle out of view and coming back with it it lit and he is the only one in the room, then him lighting it seems like the best explanation.
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