One clear, precise prophecy of Muhammad.. among many

[The Architect Of Fate]

Redefine ? Every variant I gave is quoted from renowned collections of authentic hadiths. Authentic. Many variants help understand the full meaning, they don't really change it.

Lol 

The plague even in its specific sense is not modern, it's alluded to in the OT

Irrelevant

Oh and 

bubonic plague , or any serious disease that kills many people:

Millions died of (the) plague.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction...ish/plague

I don't care that you don't like the dictionary definitions of words . Fact is Medina has been hit by diseases that kill lots of people. It fits a valid definition above. I win . Oh and competing to build tall shit is ancient and nothing in prophecy proves it was the arab states lolololol

[Brian37]

it is vital to redefine the Prophet’s words to mean as many different things as needed to make the prophecy work.

Redefine ? Every variant I gave is quoted from renowned collections of authentic hadiths. Authentic. Many variants help understand the full meaning, they don't really change it.

For other prophecies, like the plague one, we can only use the specific, modern definition of the words, because that makes the prophecy work.

The plague even in its specific sense is not modern, it's alluded to in the OT.

Saying "plagues happen, or "will happen again", in the context of old mythology,  does does not demonstrate any scientific knowledge as to why they happen. 

Just like one can observe lightening does not prove the existence of Thor.  Just like the observation of hurricanes does not prove the existence of the ocean god Poseidon.

Plaguess do happen, but not because Allah or Yahweh or Buddha or Vishnu exist. Plagues happen because virus's and bacteria exist, and we scientifical now know what DNA/RNA are. Humans worldwide in every religion in antiquity had NO CLUE in any modern context what bacteria or viruses were back then. So humans in every religion back then made up superstitious reasons as to why they were being "punished" or superstitious reasons as to why they survived.

IN REALITY viruses and bacteria don't give a fuck what one's religion is. Viruses and bacteria are not punishments anymore than if you get stuck in the path of a hurricane it isn't Poseidon punishing you. It just means you are in the path of a hurricane.

Viruses and bacteria are merely an unfortunate part of life, no magic or god needed to explain why good or bad happen in life.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

it is vital to redefine the Prophet’s words to mean as many different things as needed to make the prophecy work.

Redefine ? Every variant I gave is quoted from renowned collections of authentic hadiths. Authentic. Many variants help understand the full meaning, they don't really change it.

For other prophecies, like the plague one, we can only use the specific, modern definition of the words, because that makes the prophecy work.

The plague even in its specific sense is not modern, it's alluded to in the OT.

Nonsense. How is a rain of frogs a ‘plague’ in the modern sense? Or an invasion of insects? Or a river turning to blood? Even the ‘plague’ that killed the livestock and the firstborn are not well enough described in the OT to qualify specifically as ‘plague’ in the modern sense.

What you’re doing is applying different standards of meaning to the words of the two prophecies. That is, to say the least, disingenuous (to say the most, it’s dishonest).

Boru

[Brian37]

Pandemics happen for a very mundane and REAL reason. The virus/bacteria that spreads depending, is "novel" and in science that means it hasn't been widely studied because scientists have not seen it in it's current form, before, or not at all. Viruses and bacteria are just like any other life in that they can evolve and change over time and only study and tracking through science and communication and human coordination will fight it or mitigate it.

If you can accept that Thor isn't the explanation for why lightening happens, then you should be able to accept that a god, any god, is not required to explain why plagues happen.

[R00tKiT]

Saying "plagues happen, or "will happen again", in the context of old mythology,  does does not demonstrate any scientific knowledge as to why they happen. 

Just like one can observe lightening does not prove the existence of Thor.  Just like the observation of hurricanes does not prove the existence of the ocean god Poseidon.

Plaguess do happen, but not because Allah or Yahweh or Buddha or Vishnu exist. Plagues happen because virus's and bacteria exist, and we scientifical now know what DNA/RNA are. Humans worldwide in every religion in antiquity had NO CLUE in any modern context what bacteria or viruses were back then. So humans in every religion back then made up superstitious reasons as to why they were being "punished" or superstitious reasons as to why they survived.

IN REALITY viruses and bacteria don't give a fuck what one's religion is. Viruses and bacteria are not punishments anymore than if you get stuck in the path of a hurricane it isn't Poseidon punishing you. It just means you are in the path of a hurricane.

Viruses and bacteria are merely an unfortunate part of life, no magic or god needed to explain why good or bad happen in life.

You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of God. Just because we know/can explain why stuff happen doesn't rule out a supernatural agent. I am not going to delve arguments for theism once again, I am just pointing out to you that your whole wall of text above is one big empty tautology.

Dinner table is empty because mechanical forces -obeying all laws of physics one can think of- operated on every plate and displaced the mass of food that was there some time earlier........... it's just minutiae to account for the fact that somebody ate dinner. When you zoom in and start overthinking about scientific explanations, it's really easy to give in to the urge to rule out an intelligent cause entirely.

Now for the universe, because we are fallible little mammals with fallible brains, we perceive modern explanations of phenomena as something huge and complex, when, in reality, it's just our very limited perspective of magical sleight of hand of an infinitely powerful deity.

Nonsense. How is a rain of frogs a ‘plague’ in the modern sense? Or an invasion of insects? Or a river turning to blood? Even the ‘plague’ that killed the livestock and the firstborn are not well enough described in the OT to qualify specifically as ‘plague’ in the modern sense.

Nice try, bro. You talk of the "modern sense" of plague as it was some obscure case of rarely seen diseases, the plague in its modern sense is the same plague that caused the deadliest pandemics in history, including the Black Death.

I guess you are the ones trying to make words as loose and meaningless as possible to rule out prophecies. This same tactic performed by your ancestors is what made you lose the words of Jesus entirely, to be left with the song of songs........

[The Architect Of Fate]

Nice try, bro. You talk of the "modern sense" of plague as it was some obscure case of rarely seen diseases, the plague in its modern sense is the same plague that caused the deadliest pandemics in history, including the Black Death.

Actually he doesn't 

I guess you are the ones trying to make words as loose and meaningless as possible to rule out prophecies. This same tactic performed by your ancestors is what made you lose the words of Jesus entirely, to be left with the song of songs........

Nope that would still be you

---

You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of God. Just because we know/can explain why stuff happen doesn't rule out a supernatural agent. I am not going to delve arguments for theism once again, I am just pointing out to you that your whole wall of text above is one big empty tautology.

Too bad he say the conclusion was god doesn't exist . But that god is redundant and unjustified as an explanation . 

Dinner table is empty because mechanical forces -obeying all laws of physics one can think of- operated on every plate and displaced the mass of food that was there some time earlier........... it's just minutiae to account for the fact that somebody ate dinner. When you zoom in and start overthinking about scientific explanations, it's really easy to give in to the urge to rule out an intelligent cause entirely.

This isn't a valid analogy  as it assumes a activity that we know is specifically done by an agency eronogiously and applying it elsewhere .

Now for the universe, because we are fallible little mammals with fallible brains, we perceive modern explanations of phenomena as something huge and complex, when, in reality, it's just our very limited perspective of magical sleight of hand of an infinitely powerful deity.

Our ontological nature and it's limitations in no way suggest a god . But nice you demean the had work of people who are actually trying to describe the universe .

And lastly 

And once again if Mo was referring to bubonic plague he could have described it

[Brian37]

Saying "plagues happen, or "will happen again", in the context of old mythology,  does does not demonstrate any scientific knowledge as to why they happen. 

Just like one can observe lightening does not prove the existence of Thor.  Just like the observation of hurricanes does not prove the existence of the ocean god Poseidon.

Plaguess do happen, but not because Allah or Yahweh or Buddha or Vishnu exist. Plagues happen because virus's and bacteria exist, and we scientifical now know what DNA/RNA are. Humans worldwide in every religion in antiquity had NO CLUE in any modern context what bacteria or viruses were back then. So humans in every religion back then made up superstitious reasons as to why they were being "punished" or superstitious reasons as to why they survived.

IN REALITY viruses and bacteria don't give a fuck what one's religion is. Viruses and bacteria are not punishments anymore than if you get stuck in the path of a hurricane it isn't Poseidon punishing you. It just means you are in the path of a hurricane.

Viruses and bacteria are merely an unfortunate part of life, no magic or god needed to explain why good or bad happen in life.

You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of God. Just because we know/can explain why stuff happen doesn't rule out a supernatural agent. I am not going to delve arguments for theism once again, I am just pointing out to you that your whole wall of text above is one big empty tautology.

Dinner table is empty because mechanical forces -obeying all laws of physics one can think of- operated on every plate and displaced the mass of food that was there some time earlier........... it's just minutiae to account for the fact that somebody ate dinner. When you zoom in and start overthinking about scientific explanations, it's really easy to give in to the urge to rule out an intelligent cause entirely.

Now for the universe, because we are fallible little mammals with fallible brains, we perceive modern explanations of phenomena as something huge and complex, when, in reality, it's just our very limited perspective of magical sleight of hand of an infinitely powerful deity.

Nonsense. How is a rain of frogs a ‘plague’ in the modern sense? Or an invasion of insects? Or a river turning to blood? Even the ‘plague’ that killed the livestock and the firstborn are not well enough described in the OT to qualify specifically as ‘plague’ in the modern sense.

Nice try, bro. You talk of the "modern sense" of plague as it was some obscure case of rarely seen diseases, the plague in its modern sense is the same plague that caused the deadliest pandemics in history, including the Black Death.

I guess you are the ones trying to make words as loose and meaningless as possible to rule out prophecies. This same tactic performed by your ancestors is what made you lose the words of Jesus entirely, to be left with the song of songs........

See if you can spot the pattern.....

"You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of God"
"You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of Yahweh"
"You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of Allah"
"You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of Vishnu"
"You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of Zeus"
"You're just repeating one classical (failed) objection against the existence of Osiris"

7 billion humans, countless religions, countless God/god/gods/deity claims in our species entire global history. But magically you, picked the correct one.

Just getting your driver's licence at the DMV, get in line take a number.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The Theist script crumbles

[Brian37]

And do us all a favor, don't stupidly assume this is our first rodeo with a theist. None of us are new to the arguments of theists. And most of us here have a very global understanding of many religions, not just yours.

---

Islam is simply a spin off of Christianity, Christianity iis simply a spinoff of Jews. The first Jews were Hebrews, but even the Hebrews were simply polytheists wo elevated Yahweh from a lesser god of part of a divine family in the Canaanite polytheism to being the only God.

[The Architect Of Fate]

He seems to love to play this sleight of hand 

Because we observe humans doing specific act X and we don't rule out the human we specifically observed doing in the afterward because we understand the science  .We should then not rule out a being that never been observed doing anything or worst still is conflated to the humans we observe doing things because we understand the science .Even though unlike the human we have no reason to include said in the observation nor does it serve any purpose too . It's a redundancy. And then demeans the best and most successful method we have at understanding by implying that it's complexity will end in god for no reason .