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Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 11:12 am
Granted, if one arbitrarily defines a miracle as an act of God...then one might say the existence of a realTM miracle would prove God existed. But if we just define a miracle as something that is not explainable by natural laws or science, then I don't think it would be evidence of the existence of God.
For argument sake, let's assume something inexplicable actually happened.
First, one would have to know that whatever happened was actually impossible to have been due to natural laws or causes. It seems there is enough we don't know about the natural world that that is unlikely to ever be known.
Second, even IF one COULD know for certain that whatever happened could not have been due to 'natural laws' and/or nature, that would still leave other plausible explanations..e.g. some 'outside of nature' or 'supernatural' force that either acts randomly/inexplicably or that could be somehow controlled by humans or other beings with minds, Of course this explanation would be evidence of some sort of supernatural and maybe even that (some) human minds can access.
From a personal standpoint, I'm not convinced any actual miracles (events that cannot be explained through nature) have ever occurred, although I have heard some pretty remarkable stories from people I believe were telling what they thought to be true.
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 11:15 am
"A miracle" is a euphorism - used by dim-witted folks as an equivalant for "I don't know".
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 11:17 am
Miracles are evidence for the existence of God but only if we define miracles as necessarily an example of God's intervention.
I mean, why jump the gun? Whether there is a God or not .... where is the evidence for miracles?
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 11:47 am
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2020 at 11:48 am by Brian37.)
There are no such things as "miracles". That is simply a superstitious place card word people use when they don't have an explanation.
For example, someone might survive a plane crash and call that a "miracle" when the survival was merely conditions that lead to the surval, while others on that same plane die.
Life is a crap shoot, and eventually everyone dies, even if it is old age.
"Shouldn't have" and "Should have" don't change how an event ends up either way.
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 11:55 am
(This post was last modified: July 16, 2020 at 11:57 am by Porcupine.)
(July 16, 2020 at 11:47 am)Brian37 Wrote: Life is a crap shoot
Very true indeed. Because it's (1) Fun, (2) Completely luck-based and (3) Usually an expensive waste of time at best and life destroying at worst.
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 12:00 pm
What exactly defines "supernatural" can be rather tricky. People used to believe the sun was a god (now we know it's a giant ball of gas). People used to think the rain was caused by a rain deity (now we know condensation). People sued to think shizophrenia was caused by demons (now we know it's issues with the brain). Just because something isn't explained by our current understanding of naturalism doesn't necessarily mean it's "supernatural", it just mean it hasn't been scientifically explained yet. Imagine if we discovered a race of aliens that could start fires with their mind. Is that necessarily "supernatural"? No, it just means we don't quite understand the naturalistic beans by which they're able to do it (perhaps their brains can give off high, intense heat waves).
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 12:02 pm
Supernatural, noun---that which if you have evidence of it it isn't itself.
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 12:10 pm
I don't know if anything can be considered to be evidence for God since God is not defined. Alexander the Great was considered God and yet what can prove that he is or isn't God?
Are gods all supernatural? Are they all immortal? Can all of them fly, or only some? Can they walk through walls? Can they read our thoughts? Do they know the future? Can a god have mental and physical frailties? Can a human become a god? Can a god become a human? What is it that makes someone or something a god in our eyes? What is a god?
For instance, although I am a flying saucers skeptic if I saw an evidence of alien spacecraft visiting Earth I wouldn't be dishonest and would accept that aliens are visiting Earth. Because that conundrum is well defined while God isn't.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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RE: Are miracles evidence of the existence of God?
July 16, 2020 at 12:13 pm
I think God, rather than being undefined, is defined in far too many different ways.
"Zen … does not confuse spirituality with thinking about God while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes." - Alan Watts