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[Serious] What God's justification for eternal torment?
#21
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 13, 2020 at 10:30 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.

God is a fictional character.  Why dwell on his justification for anything?
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#22
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 13, 2020 at 10:30 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.

Yes, the eternal damnation thing is the most obvious flag that the religion is nonsense. The very concept of eternal damnation is a thing of human failing which a perfect god would reject.

Of all the absurdities of the stories of the religions of the world, eternal damnation takes the cake. Apply the smallest quantum of logic to this claim and the whole absurdity of the whole thing revealed.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Albert Einstein
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#23
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 13, 2020 at 10:30 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.
Everyone determines by choice if they want to have eternity with connection or separation from God.
God’s nature doesn’t allow for torture, torment; if anyone experiences that, it's entirely self-imposed. ‘Burn' is symbolic of what separation from God is liken to.*
*2 Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance which also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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#24
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote:
(August 13, 2020 at 10:30 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.
Everyone determines by choice if they want to have eternity with connection or separation from God.
God’s nature doesn’t allow for torture, torment; if anyone experiences that, it's entirely self-imposed. ‘Burn' is symbolic of what separation from God is liken to.*
*2 Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

Except, you can't prove a single word of that to be true

It's stupid beyond belief, that's why you have to justify it in such a silly fashion.
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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#25
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Everyone determines by choice if they want to have eternity with connection or separation from God.
God’s nature doesn’t allow for torture, torment; if anyone experiences that, it's entirely self-imposed. ‘Burn' is symbolic of what separation from God is liken to.*
*2 Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

Wrong! My beliefs are not a choice. They are involuntary and open ended, based upon a fair examination of available evidence. Thus far, I have seen no convincing evidence of arguments that ANY gods exist. Prove that your God exists and that the Bible is true. THEN we can discuss heaven and hell.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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#26
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote:
(August 13, 2020 at 10:30 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.
Everyone determines by choice if they want to have eternity with connection or separation from God.
God’s nature doesn’t allow for torture, torment; if anyone experiences that, it's entirely self-imposed. ‘Burn' is symbolic of what separation from God is liken to.*
*2 Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

So you think we send ourselves to hell? Again with that bullshit.
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#27
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
At work.

Now there's an interesting thought I ponder while in uffish pose I stand;

If it is me exercising my 'Free will' with not experiencing any evidence of a diety which thence consigns me to 'Hell'.

Should not, then, the diety make itself totally known to all unequivocally but incidentally destroying every one's 'Free will' however assuring everyone's acceptance into the proffered 'Greatergood' of heaven?


*Continues to ponder the inponerable.....*

(Which is realy ponderous, man. I can't offer the link to the song at this time sadly, however.)
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#28
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Everyone determines by choice if they want to have eternity with connection or separation from God.
God’s nature doesn’t allow for torture, torment; if anyone experiences that, it's entirely self-imposed. ‘Burn' is symbolic of what separation from God is liken to.*
*2 Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

“If this is your God, he’s not very impressive. He has so many psychological problems; he’s so insecure. He demands worship every seven days. He goes out and creates faulty humans and then blames them for his own mistakes. He’s a pretty poor excuse for a Supreme Being.” (Gene Roddenberry)

Incidentally, your "Atheist Credo" is bunk. Atheism is about the existence or non-existence of gods. It has nothing to do with cosmology.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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#29
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
I think that efforts to minimize this issue by minimizing the burning, or removing it entirely, are a demonstration of a given believers agreement with the thrust of the argument. If it really was torture, and god was doing it, that would be bad.

Why or how would eternal destruction escape the exact same criticism?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#30
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 14, 2020 at 9:57 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Infinite punishment for finite offenses is unjust on the face of it. The biblical support for it is dodgy though, you can put together verses to support the 'Lake of Fire' being reserved for Satan and his fellow rebel angels, annihilation of the souls of sinners, or verses to support eventual universal salvation. Eternal hellfire seems to just be popular in many Christian sects, presumably because fear of it is believed to help keep the flock in line. In modern times the eternal hellfire doctrine is a problem, possibly because the morality of modern culture has moved beyond considering torture a just punishment even if it's temporary.

Here's a quote from one of the early writings in my church, dating back to the 1800's. But I'm sure the idea itself echos even further back in time.

"How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell; that for the sins of a brief, earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live." —Great Controversy, p. 535.
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