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[Serious] What God's justification for eternal torment?
#31
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
How repugnant, then, to those same notions of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are destroyed; that for the sins of a brief, earthly life they are to be annihilated in spirit.

If the thrust of this argument appeals to you, is the manner in which human souls are disposed - by fire or without fire, really the problem?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#32
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
I think your objection would make sense, only if the default state of mankind was eternal life, and God interrupted that by destroying us. But Scripture establishes very early on that the default state of mankind is that of mortal, and eternal life is the gift. Whether you agree or disagree, this is basic Christianity 101:

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." -John 3:17
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#33
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
Yet another spiral down the drain. is that supposed to be any more or less shitty than the last, which was supposed to be less shitty than the one before it?

He's not exactly handing out snack sized twix at the office.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#34
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
It seems both objectively and subjectively better. But even if it is not, the narrative of "God as Savior" is still the accurate representation of Christian belief.
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#35
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote: Everyone determines by choice if they want to have eternity with connection or separation from God.
God’s nature doesn’t allow for torture, torment; if anyone experiences that, it's entirely self-imposed. ‘Burn' is symbolic of what separation from God is liken to.*
*2 Thess 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.

Nope, not everyone. Stop and think about it for awhile. 

But when you figure it out I'm sure that you'll come back with a "special" exception. Or maybe the position that in the big picture of god those lives are just fucked an don't matter anyway.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#36
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 16, 2020 at 1:05 am)AFTT47 Wrote:
(August 13, 2020 at 10:30 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: OK listen, I get that God has rules and all, but when it comes to punishment, why does God need to punish us with LITERAL FIRE? Why BURN BILLIONS of people as punishment for "not accepting my son" ? and Why for ETERNITY? That has to be the most fucked up thing imaginable, that to me is NOT of justice, NOT of love and certainty NOT righteous, if anything, its barbaric, its savagery, its inhumane, and most importantly, its EVIL. And don't say "No they actually do die a second time in the lake of fire" because that "holy" book of yours is filled with contradictions. God cannot deal with sinners in a civilized, and humane matter? Why not the punishment for not accepting god or Jesus be: You die in this life, thats it, no heaven.

Yes, the eternal damnation thing is the most obvious flag that the religion is nonsense. The very concept of eternal damnation is a thing of human failing which a perfect god would reject.

Of all the absurdities of the stories of the religions of the world, eternal damnation takes the cake. Apply the smallest quantum of logic to this claim and the whole absurdity of the whole thing revealed.

And millions of religious people think hell is a good thing and justified, which goes to show that these are not sane people.
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#37
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 18, 2020 at 4:13 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote:
(August 16, 2020 at 1:05 am)AFTT47 Wrote: Yes, the eternal damnation thing is the most obvious flag that the religion is nonsense. The very concept of eternal damnation is a thing of human failing which a perfect god would reject.

Of all the absurdities of the stories of the religions of the world, eternal damnation takes the cake. Apply the smallest quantum of logic to this claim and the whole absurdity of the whole thing revealed.

And millions of religious people think hell is a good thing and justified, which goes to show that these are not sane people.
God exists and everyone knows it. Creation; Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ; Scripture, and conscious awareness through the spiritual component each person has that internally gives knowledge of that fact and recognition that they are moral agents responsible to God. Some desire eternal separation from God and they are granted their wish which is not a punishment. God places more value on freedom than on obedience; would rather have free will with evil, than no free will without evil.

Denial of God's existence is willful suppression of the truth*. 
*The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven (by reading this verse) against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.   Rom 1:18
Atheist Credo: An universe by chance which also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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#38
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 19, 2020 at 12:11 am)snowtracks Wrote: God exists

Incorrect.

(August 19, 2020 at 12:11 am)snowtracks Wrote: and everyone knows it.

Only the deluded ones.
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#39
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 19, 2020 at 12:11 am)snowtracks Wrote:
(August 18, 2020 at 4:13 pm)SuicideCommando01 Wrote: And millions of religious people think hell is a good thing and justified, which goes to show that these are not sane people.
God exists and everyone knows it. Creation; Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ; Scripture, and conscious awareness through the spiritual component each person has that internally gives knowledge of that fact and recognition that they are moral agents responsible to God. Some desire eternal separation from God and they are granted their wish which is not a punishment. God places more value on freedom than on obedience; would rather have free will with evil, than no free will without evil.

Denial of God's existence is willful suppression of the truth*. 
*The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven (by reading this verse) against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.   Rom 1:18

First sentence is a claim without any justification or reality behind it.

The rest of the paragrapgh is just empty words.

"Truth" is just a word religionists use so they don't question reality themselves.

And ending with a bible quote is on par with me quoting "Guards! Guards!" To prove Sir Samuel Vimes, the Duke of Ankh, is a real person.
Dying to live, living to die.
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#40
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(August 19, 2020 at 12:11 am)snowtracks Wrote: God exists and everyone knows it. Creation; Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ; Scripture, and conscious awareness through the spiritual component each person has that internally gives knowledge of that fact and recognition that they are moral agents responsible to God. Some desire eternal separation from God and they are granted their wish which is not a punishment. God places more value on freedom than on obedience; would rather have free will with evil, than no free will without evil.

Denial of God's existence is willful suppression of the truth*. 
*The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven (by reading this verse) against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.   Rom 1:18

Wrong! I do not believe that God does not exist, I know  that he does not exist. To wit:

>The Christian God is defined by mainstream Christianity as being all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful, and all just. Yet even a cursory reading of the bible reveals a God who is cruel, unjust, tyrannical, unloving and eternally vengeful. Ergo, the Christian God does not exist by reason of self-contradiction.

>An omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient God, by definition, cannot create evil or permit evil to exist in the world. And yet, evil exists. Ergo, God, as he is defined by mainstream Christianity, does not exist on the grounds of self-contradiction.

>The law of conservation of matter and energy states that the total quantity of energy in the universe remains the same. Matter and energy are interchangeable, but neither can be created or destroyed. Ergo, the universe has always existed and will always exist in one form or another. God is unnecessary by the Principle of Parsimony.

>The natural histories of religions are well-documented. The behavioral causes of religions are well-known. There is no evidence that gods and religions are the products of anything other than human ingenuity and imagination. Ergo, atheism is rational and skeptically unassailable.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
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