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Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
#41
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 23, 2020 at 8:31 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It's fine as a belief, but a poor way to establish the accuracy of those beliefs content.  If everything were god-breathed then why should any particular thing strike me as evidence of a gods existence?  

A rock shaped by wind and water is just as designed as anything else in that case - you've left no frame of reference.

The whole idea behind Islam is the concept that God is the point that started everything we know and also don't know.
The winds and water follow the pattern he made. But since he also made humans; then any action the human does is meant to happen by God; its conclusion and effect on the environment is also meant to happen.

That's why earth is more of a test ground God gave for humans to see if they can use or abuse the skills he gave them. (of course he knows the result already; but living the test is essential for it to happen).

If you felt it's unfair, think about humans and the sun..or humans and the ocean.
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#42
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
I'll leave you to wonder whether something is fair. I'm merely pointing out that nothing, no matter how grand and incomprehensible it may be, would be any more or less designed than anything else.

Our intuitions about design and the characteristics by which we recognize it must be plain and simply wrong making all of our intuitions of design equally suspect, including your own premise....if your premise were true. As I said, rock out with your beliefs - but as an argument...that one is completely self defeating.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#43
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 23, 2020 at 8:58 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'll leave you to wonder whether something is fair.  I'm merely pointing out that nothing, no matter how grand and incomprehensible it may be, would be any more or less designed than anything else.  

Our intuitions about design and the characteristics by which we recognize it must be plain and simply wrong making all of our intuitions of design equally suspect, including your own premise....if your premise were true.  As I said, rock out with your beliefs - but as an argument...that one is completely self defeating.

Islam teaches that this life is just a temporarily nothing:


Quote:Sura 57 Verse 20:
https://quranopedia.com/quran/57vs20

Know that this world's life is only sport and play and gaiety and boasting among yourselves, and a vying in the multiplication of wealth and children, like the rain, whose causing the vegetation to grow, pleases the husbandmen, then it withers away so that you will see it become yellow, then it becomes dried up and broken down; and in the hereafter is a severe chastisement and (also) forgiveness from Allah and (His) pleasure; and this world's life is naught but means of deception.

The next life is fair; while this ain't
A test ground is not supposed to be fair.
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#44
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 24, 2020 at 5:00 pm)WinterHold Wrote: The next life is fair; while this ain't
A test ground is not supposed to be fair.

As a non-believer in a next life, I think we should endeavor to make this one as fair as is reasonable.  Still, shit happens because it can.  No gods or devils necessary.
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#45
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 24, 2020 at 5:00 pm)WinterHold Wrote:
(November 23, 2020 at 8:58 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I'll leave you to wonder whether something is fair.  I'm merely pointing out that nothing, no matter how grand and incomprehensible it may be, would be any more or less designed than anything else.  

Our intuitions about design and the characteristics by which we recognize it must be plain and simply wrong making all of our intuitions of design equally suspect, including your own premise....if your premise were true.  As I said, rock out with your beliefs - but as an argument...that one is completely self defeating.

Islam teaches that this life is just a temporarily nothing:
That's not an argument, and it's not exactly the best light to shine on your religion, either.  Life denying and life destroying.  

Quote:The next life is fair; while this ain't
A test ground is not supposed to be fair.
I sometimes wonder what the fuck is being taught to people like you to have you come before us as you are, and now I see.

If I were testing a group of 5th graders on math, and I gave one of the kids a set of 10th grade problems and another a set of second grade problems..the results won't be indicative of anything about the children themselves.  The kid who got the highest grade won;t have done so because he knows math, but because I gave him easy questions..and the kid who fails, likewise but in reverse.

So, sure, why not send the one to heaven and the other to hell and then exclaim that the next life will be "fair"....because words mean nothing and all that matters is to say something.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#46
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 24, 2020 at 10:28 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(November 24, 2020 at 5:00 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Islam teaches that this life is just a temporarily nothing:
That's not an argument, and it's not exactly the best light to shine on your religion, either.  Life denying and life destroying. 
That's because the context of our conversation was only about this life.
Islam looks at 2 lives not 1. To survive hell in the second life, I need to do every good I can in the first one.

Quote:
Quote:The next life is fair; while this ain't
A test ground is not supposed to be fair.
I sometimes wonder what the fuck is being taught to people like you to have you come before us as you are, and now I see.

If I were testing a group of 5th graders on math, and I gave one of the kids a set of 10th grade problems and another a set of second grade problems..the results won't be indicative of anything about the children themselves.  The kid who got the highest grade won;t have done so because he knows math, but because I gave him easy questions..and the kid who fails, likewise but in reverse.

So, sure, why not send the one to heaven and the other to hell and then exclaim that the next life will be "fair"....because words mean nothing and all that matters is to say something.

Believe me I'm not a victim of some "evil brainwashing"; I believe for various personal reasons related to thinking and observing.


Yes this life is not fair. Some suffer and some get it easy, both the easy conditions and the harsh conditions are different forms of the same question: "do you believe in God before your death"?

This is the real question humans must answer through their life. The exam paper will have so many questions that ends in the question that decides whether you're in Heaven or Hell in the next life.

A verse stating explicitly that real fairness will be in the second life:

Quote:Sura 21, The Quran:
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#...rans=en_sh

( 47 )   And We place the scales of justice for the Day of Resurrection, so no soul will be treated unjustly at all. And if there is [even] the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth. And sufficient are We as accountant.
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#47
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
What??
Dying to live, living to die.
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#48
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 26, 2020 at 6:46 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Believe me I'm not a victim of some "evil brainwashing"; I believe for various personal reasons related to thinking and observing.
Meh, brainwashing isn't really a thing, people are active participants in their indoctrination.  

I do wonder what various and personal reasons related to thinking and observing you have for believing that a test should not be fair.  I don't care what magic book has to say on the issue or whether some imaginary themepark in the sky is a more fair place than this.  

What makes you think that an unfair test is testing anything at all about the people taking it?  Is the 5th grader with 2nd grade questions and 100% accurate answers better at the subject than the 5th grader with 10th grade questions and 80% accurate answers?  We could repeat the question with the same set of 5th grade questions for both 5th graders - but one kid has to dodge bullets while he takes the test..and the other, comfy in his chair with all the snacks and juice he needs. I find it hard to believe that you've never taken a test in your life, and so couldn't observe that we standardize them exactly so that they're fair, but..also, so that they function as an actual test of who is better at a subject rather than who got the easiest set of questions or the more conducive circumstance.  

This isn't a question of whether you believe life to be unfair, or whether you believe that heaven will be fair.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#49
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
(November 27, 2020 at 5:18 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(November 26, 2020 at 6:46 pm)WinterHold Wrote: Believe me I'm not a victim of some "evil brainwashing"; I believe for various personal reasons related to thinking and observing.
Meh, brainwashing isn't really a thing, people are active participants in their indoctrination.  

I do wonder what various and personal reasons related to thinking and observing you have for believing that a test should not be fair.  I don't care what magic book has to say on the issue or whether some imaginary themepark in the sky is a more fair place than this.  

What makes you think that an unfair test is testing anything at all about the people taking it? 
This is the main observation I noticed- life is just like a system following a pattern so expected: some people are born with good conditions while others are born in bad conditions.
Both the bad conditions and the good conditions are the same in making the mind of a person about God's existence.
An example: a rich person might disbelieve in God because they are "too drowned" in their wealth.
Example 2: a poor person might disbelieve in God because they are "too angry" about their place in life.
On the other hand,
An example: a rich person might believe in God because they feel so thankful for the wealth they have.
Example2: a poor person might believe in God because they want to live better in the afterlife.
For me; I believed in God strongly after I got diagnosed with MS. I lost lots in this life due to my condition; so I want to be rewarded in the next life. I know very well how the bad test affected my religion, it made me..believe more to be honest.

Quote:Is the 5th grader with 2nd grade questions and 100% accurate answers better at the subject than the 5th grader with 10th grade questions and 80% accurate answers?  We could repeat the question with the same set of 5th grade questions for both 5th graders - but one kid has to dodge bullets while he takes the test..and the other, comfy in his chair with all the snacks and juice he needs. I find it hard to believe that you've never taken a test in your life, and so couldn't observe that we standardize them exactly so that they're fair, but..also, so that they function as an actual test of who is better at a subject rather than who got the easiest set of questions or the more conducive circumstance.  


God already gave his word that there is no cheating in this test. Nobody has the answers that's why God can't be seen. Neither angels nor demons. Everybody is having crisis in faith at some point; so I'm not seeing no 5th graders having a blast during the test.

Those who eat snacks and relax get chopped either by death or by what happened to the Islamic empire or by turning to atheists who don't believe.

You underestimate what good conditions can do to somebody's faith.
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#50
RE: Enough of this crap, I want to hear directly from god
I...don't.....care....what...heaven....you....wish....for.  I want to know why you think that a test shouldn't be fair.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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