Why $15 an hour minimum wage SUCKS

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

-and with that in mind, and assuming that conservative economic principles are aimed at wealth generation - again I have to wonder whether this is a right left thing.  It seems to me that conservative policies can be implemented with regards to increasing minimum wages, which we can agree is a desirable outcome and valid use of government resources and authority.

What else are they supposed to be for?

Correct me if I'm wrong, non-usians....but that is how conservatives in countries with aggressive minimum wage reform apply themselves...is it not?  Not loons, mind you, conservatives?  Minimizing the shock to markets while pursuing the goal of wealth generation and increased qol?

Conservatives in the UK and NZ don’t - by and large - object to the concept of a minimum wage, but often try to slow-track increases to avoid the non-existent economic disasters mentioned earlier.

A useful metric of how ANY country’s legislature views a living wage is how the legal minimum compares to the actual median income.

In the UK, minimum wage is 60% of the median, in New Zealand, it’s 74%. In the US, it’s 38%. Make of that what you will.

Boru

[Angrboda]

-and with that in mind, and assuming that conservative economic principles are aimed at wealth generation - again I have to wonder whether this is a right left thing.  It seems to me that conservative policies can be implemented with regards to increasing minimum wages, which we can agree is a desirable outcome and valid use of government resources and authority.

What else are they supposed to be for?

Correct me if I'm wrong, non-usians....but that is how conservatives in countries with aggressive minimum wage reform apply themselves...is it not?  Not loons, mind you, conservatives?  Minimizing the shock to markets while pursuing the goal of wealth generation and increased qol?

Conservatives in the UK and NZ don’t - by and large - object to the concept of a minimum wage, but often try to slow-track increases to avoid the non-existent economic disasters mentioned earlier.

A useful metric of how ANY country’s legislature views a living wage is how the legal minimum compares to the actual median income.

In the UK, minimum wage is 60% of the median, in New Zealand, it’s 74%. In the US, it’s 38%. Make of that what you will.

Boru

That's only because those other countries suck! </MAGA>

[The Grand Nudger]

Being generous, we'll call that an abundance of caution - the essential stuff of conservatism. A person doesn't have to agree with it to see it's value as a principle. What we have here in the states is something else calling itself conservatism.

I think that shows itself in the disparity you referenced. Conservatism surrounds the very real possibility that we could get rid of something that's working - not the insistence that we refuse to abandon things that aren't. IDK about the rest of my fellow americans, but I refuse to settle for failing with respect to any other nation on earth in any conceivable metric of success.

[arewethereyet]

Why would anyone think that if minimum wage is finally raised, after 11 years, that everyone's pay should be increased?

I currently earn more in 15 hours a week than a minimum wage worker pulls down in 40 hours. I don't have a problem with people being able to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table when they are working their asses off in some shitty service job where not only are the conditions sucky but the people they have to serve generally treat them like shit.

Next time you want to grocery shop, pop into a convenience store, or pull through the drive thru for your lunch remember that the people working are there for your convenience and be thankful you aren't putting up with what they put up with every day. And think about the fact that they are probably working two or three jobs just to get by.

[Brian37]

Why would anyone think that if minimum wage is finally raised, after  11 years, that everyone's pay should be increased?  

I currently earn more in 15 hours a week than a minimum wage worker pulls down in 40 hours.  I don't have a problem with people being able to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table when they are working their asses off in some shitty service job where not only are the conditions sucky but the people they have to serve generally treat them like shit.

Next time you want to grocery shop, pop into a convenience store, or pull through the drive thru for your lunch remember that the people working are there for your convenience and be thankful you aren't putting up with what they put up with every day.  And think about the fact that they are probably working two or three jobs just to get by.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ So much this! 100% agree. 

I have worked service jobs myself, department stores, gas stations, pizza delivery, convenience stores, food service. They do not get paid what they are worth. 

And there is a stupid myth held by some that all those jobs are "starter jobs", but they never think about who is working there when the college and high school kids are in class.

[onlinebiker]

Minimum wage is political fellatio - bought by politicians - at someone else's expense.

The worst part of it - is all the people who get screwed - by giving "mo money" to burger flippers and latte slingers.

Example: My SO currently makes better than double the current minimum wage of $7.25 an hour - working accounts payable for a local family owned business. It's not great money - but it is pretty much the scale for such jobs in this area. She has a 4 year degree in accounting and 25 years experience.

Now along comes Joe Politician - ordering up the political blowjob - so he can score some votes by looking all "compassionate". Gotta get "mo money" to the little guy. Snap- bang - gee whiz -- the greeter at Walmart is making $15 an hour - less than 10 percent less of what my SO makes. Isn't that fucking great???

So why did she spend 4 years getting a degree??? Why did we do without fun toys and not take any vacations for the last 5 years - so we could pay off her student loans???

Gee -- they want to make college free too.....

So now my SO will essentially be a minimum wage worker. DON'T even go on with moronic drivel of "her employer will raise her wages too".....

Are you THAT FUCKING STUPID???? He will not raise her wages. He will FREEZE wages - probably for years - AND he will be forced to lay off some of the employees. Unlike the government - he can't just print up more money when he needs it. Sure - he can pass on some of the costs to customers by raising prices.... HEY - WELCOME TO INFLATION!!!!

ALL minimum wage does - is ensure there are more poor people. All at the bottom of the pay scale.

And you wonder why the rich keep getting richer.

I say if a business cant afford to pay a livable wage, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place. I am so fucking sick of assholes putting down workers and treating them as if all they deserve are crumbs.

Says the pizza delivery guy.....


No education, no skills and no experience should NOT equal a "liveable wage".

If you don't invest in yourself - you are a parasitic cunt to expect others to invest in you....

[arewethereyet]

I say if a business cant afford to pay a livable wage, then they shouldn't be in business in the first place. I am so fucking sick of assholes putting down workers and treating them as if all they deserve are crumbs.

Says the pizza delivery guy.....


No education, no skills and no experience should NOT equal a "liveable wage".

If you don't invest in yourself - you are a parasitic cunt to expect others to invest in you....

I do not have a degree in accounting but have worked my way up in the field of bookkeeping for years.  Yes, many employers want to see that you have a degree but usually when they find out I was doing bookkeeping long ago on ledger cards and adding machines (they weren't calculators yet) they know that I know what a damn T account is and I actually know double entry bookkeeping and not just how to fill in the blank on a screen.

In high school I took a bookkeeping class and found out I have a knack for it so I just kept building on it.

Before we moved here the economy had tanked in SC.  I worked through an agency at Michelin doing payroll...not making much so I worked as a cashier at a local grocery store, for minimum wage, a couple nights a week and one day on the weekend.  Doing payroll for a few hundred people was less stressful than standing on my feet waiting on people for a few hours a week.  

You do what you need to do to survive, but that shouldn't include killing yourself.

This is not a cut and dried thing.  Most things aren't.

[onlinebiker]

Says the pizza delivery guy.....


No education, no skills and no experience should NOT equal a "liveable wage".

If you don't invest in yourself - you are a parasitic cunt to expect others to invest in you....

I do not have a degree in accounting but have worked my way up in the field of bookkeeping for years.  Yes, many employers want to see that you have a degree but usually when they find out I was doing bookkeeping long ago on ledger cards and adding machines (they weren't calculators yet) they know that I know what a damn T account is and I actually know double entry bookkeeping and not just how to fill in the blank on a screen.

In high school I took a bookkeeping class and found out I have a knack for it so I just kept building on it.

Before we moved here the economy had tanked in SC.  I worked through an agency at Michelin doing payroll...not making much so I worked as a cashier at a local grocery store, for minimum wage, a couple nights a week and one day on the weekend.  Doing payroll for a few hundred people was less stressful than standing on my feet waiting on people for a few hours a week.  

You do what you need to do to survive, but that shouldn't include killing yourself.

This is not a cut and dried thing.  Most things aren't.

While you don't have the education - you apparently have skills and experience - which to many employers are the more important of the three.



Employers don't pay people because they are great people who love everyone. Nor is it out of some idealistic notion.  Employers pay employees because the employee can provide something the employer needs.

If your job is to hand a customer a muffin and swipe a credit card - don't expect to raise a family and buy a house with your 5 bucks an hour.

It is insane to expect otherwise.

[Rev. Rye]

Says the pizza delivery guy.....


No education, no skills and no experience should NOT equal a "liveable wage".

If you don't invest in yourself - you are a parasitic cunt to expect others to invest in you....

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

In 1914, Henry Ford paid ALL of his male factory workers $5/day - the men who made the engine parts were paid the same as the men who bolted on the tires who were paid the same as cleaned the lavvys and swept the floors.

This is the equivalent of $16.25/hour today. Mr. Ford was well known for not going bankrupt.

Boru