Chauvin Murder Trial

[Reforged]

Your predictably knee-jerk five word response? They can both be. 
I'm sorry if I offended your new religion.

---

The decision can be appealed based on the circumstances the verdict was reached in. 
Judge even said as much during the trial, go back and watch the part the defense brings up the lobbying.

An appeal is not a retrial. In rare cases, an appeals court can order a new trial, but an appeal is essentially a review of the original trial done to make sure no mistakes were made and that the defendant’s rights were not violated. It is NOT a retrial.

Boru

Fair enough but the outcome is essentially the same; the grandstanding and lobbying that prevailed throughout could potentially lead to a reduced sentence.
Not only is whipping mobs up into a frenzy incredibly irresponsible but it could backfire.

[The Grand Nudger]

People often see things where there's nothing. We are fallible beings who often seek alternate meaning where there is none.

That is true, but there can be reasonable doubt and still be nothing there. A defendant doesn't have to prove their innocence. Just cast some type of reasonable doubt. Seeking alternative meaning whether there is any or not is exactly what the jurors job is. They have to eliminate any reasonable doubt. Yes, Chauvin's actions most probably played a significant role in Floyd's death. I'd agree with those that said it was manslaughter rather than 2nd degree murder though. The point that I saw Mark Geragos make for doubt was that Floyd died of hypoxia, and fentanyl can cause hypoxia. People have said that wouldn't have happened at the level of fentanyl he had in him, but all the expert witnesses also testified that there is no safe level of fentanyl. The autopsy also stated that the drugs contributed to his death, as did his heart disease.

The emotion around the case and wanting Chauvin to pay was totally understandable, and I know if he wasn't found guilty of 2nd degree murder, it would have been seen as unacceptable and this would have been the last straw and people would have been more outraged than ever and feel like they could never get justice if they couldn't get justice this time, but when I look at a case, I can't look at it like that. The idea of innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt is always going to trump one particular family getting justice. I'd rather see 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man locked up, whether that's a cop, a gang member, or anyone else.

 You think that because you don't understand the charges, no matter how many times they've been explained and reexplained to you.  If twenty other things contributed to floyds death, chauvins knee was still one of them - and that's enough for a murder charge.  There's no reasonable doubt that chauvins knee was among the things that contributed to the mans death.

Charged with and convicted for extreme recklessness in the process of committing an assault which led to a mans death. AKA, exactly what you, I, and everyone else saw him do for a good ten minutes..... on video.

[Reforged]

Your predictably knee-jerk five word response? They can both be. 
I'm sorry if I offended your new religion.

Your predictably worthless knee-jerk counter-response.

Nah I don't have a religion let alone one someone like you could offer any effective offense to. All you can offer is nonsensical babbling and logic-free rambling which only requires 5 words to accurately describe and reject as the description warrants.

Oh cool, you're mimicking me now. Thats adorable.

Ha... yeah, yeah you do. 
You seem pretty pissed for someone who isn't offended. Go have a little rant on tumblr or twitter or whatever your poison is, that'll make you feel better.

[Nay_Sayer]

The murderer who committed murder on camera was found guilty of murder.

Did I miss anything?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Oh cool, you're mimicking me now. Thats adorable.

No just applying your comment to the right person and making an appropriate addition.

Ha... yeah, yeah you do. 

Is this your brain damage kicking in or the drugs? 

You seem pretty pissed for someone who isn't offended. 

Wow, now your hallucinating. Seriously get help. 

Go have a little rant on tumblr or twitter or whatever your poison is, that'll make you feel better.

Why would I rant about something that didn't upset me? Now your making nonsensical statements. Seriously have that looked at.

[Irreligious Atheist]

That is true, but there can be reasonable doubt and still be nothing there. A defendant doesn't have to prove their innocence. Just cast some type of reasonable doubt. Seeking alternative meaning whether there is any or not is exactly what the jurors job is. They have to eliminate any reasonable doubt. Yes, Chauvin's actions most probably played a significant role in Floyd's death. I'd agree with those that said it was manslaughter rather than 2nd degree murder though. The point that I saw Mark Geragos make for doubt was that Floyd died of hypoxia, and fentanyl can cause hypoxia. People have said that wouldn't have happened at the level of fentanyl he had in him, but all the expert witnesses also testified that there is no safe level of fentanyl. The autopsy also stated that the drugs contributed to his death, as did his heart disease.

The emotion around the case and wanting Chauvin to pay was totally understandable, and I know if he wasn't found guilty of 2nd degree murder, it would have been seen as unacceptable and this would have been the last straw and people would have been more outraged than ever and feel like they could never get justice if they couldn't get justice this time, but when I look at a case, I can't look at it like that. The idea of innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubt is always going to trump one particular family getting justice. I'd rather see 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man locked up, whether that's a cop, a gang member, or anyone else.

 You think that because you don't understand the charges, no matter how many times they've been explained and reexplained to you.  If twenty other things contributed to floyds death, chauvins knee was still one of them - and that's enough for a murder charge.  There's no reasonable doubt that chauvins knee was among the things that contributed to the mans death.

Charged with and convicted for extreme recklessness in the process of committing an assault which led to a mans death.  AKA, exactly what you, I, and everyone else saw him do for a good ten minutes..... on video.

It's not factual that the knee contributed to the death. We can't be 100 percent sure. Floyd said many times that he couldn't breathe before he was taken to the ground. He said he was dying or going to die before he was taken to the ground. We don't know if he swallowed drugs right before this, and if he did, his friends already said that he was passing out before and they couldn't wake him, so if you add more drugs on top of that if he swallowed any more, then the drugs are going to be affecting him even more. There's a chance his body just gave out from the drugs and his health conditions. Now, you might say there's only a 1 in a million chance of that or 1 in 10 million or 1 in 100 million chance. If we say that maybe there was a 1 in 500 chance of that happening, or 1 in 1000 chance, then that can be argued as reasonable doubt. I don't know if the doubt was reasonable, so I probably would have tried to convince my fellow jurors to settle for manslaughter.

The officers were clearly taught that if you can talk, you can breathe just fine, because they kept saying that to George as he was complaining about not being able to breathe. Better training is obviously needed. When Floyd was being held down, he was kicking. The one lady almost got pepper sprayed by Chauvin because she was beyond irresponsible and walked right up to them, distracting the officers and only making the situation worse. That one witness told Chauvin he was a fighter and trained in MMA, and technically his hands and feet can be counted as registered weapons, so they were somewhat concerned about him. The officers were too distracted by the witnesses and that shouldn't have been the case. Chauvin should have let the other officers focus on the crowd, and focused on what he was doing. He f'd up there. I don't know how much pressure was being put on him after he passed out or why they didn't do cpr, but I don't see murder. I see manslaughter. What's done is done though. The trial is over and the verdict was what it was. I'm not going to go on beating a dead horse. A 12 year sentence to be reduced with good behaviour doesn't sound that unfair.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, we can be..and are, 100% sure. You have eyes, they have video. All that is required is that it be happening...and it very much is...on video.

The police dept washed it hands and declared chauvins actions outside the boundaries of approved holds and procedures. Assault.

Being "too distracted" to notice that you're murdering someone is extreme recklessness.

When you describe what you think happened, you are very literally describing the crimes which he was charged with and convicted for. You think he's guilty, and you think the sentence is fair. All chauvin ever had to do was take his knee off the man at any moment before he died. All you had to do was the simplest google search. The court and jury have decided, in effect, that the only way that this entire sorry ass event could have gone worse, is if chauvin had intended to murder the man in this way.

I think he might have had a few minutes to think about it. I consider your doubts the effect of wildly generous assumptions related to culture war - not the facts of this case or any other.

[Bucky Ball]

 You think that because you don't understand the charges, no matter how many times they've been explained and reexplained to you.  If twenty other things contributed to floyds death, chauvins knee was still one of them - and that's enough for a murder charge.  There's no reasonable doubt that chauvins knee was among the things that contributed to the mans death.

Charged with and convicted for extreme recklessness in the process of committing an assault which led to a mans death.  AKA, exactly what you, I, and everyone else saw him do for a good ten minutes..... on video.

It's not factual that the knee contributed to the death. We can't be 100 percent sure. Floyd said many times that he couldn't breathe before he was taken to the ground. He said he was dying or going to die before he was taken to the ground. We don't know if he swallowed drugs right before this, and if he did, his friends already said that he was passing out before and they couldn't wake him, so if you add more drugs on top of that if he swallowed any more, then the drugs are going to be affecting him even more. There's a chance his body just gave out from the drugs and his health conditions. Now, you might say there's only a 1 in a million chance of that or 1 in 10 million or 1 in 100 million chance. If we say that maybe there was a 1 in 500 chance of that happening, or 1 in 1000 chance, then that can be argued as reasonable doubt. I don't know if the doubt was reasonable, so I probably would have tried to convince my fellow jurors to settle for manslaughter.

The officers were clearly taught that if you can talk, you can breathe just fine, because they kept saying that to George as he was complaining about not being able to breathe. Better training is obviously needed. When Floyd was being held down, he was kicking. The one lady almost got pepper sprayed by Chauvin because she was beyond irresponsible and walked right up to them, distracting the officers and only making the situation worse. That one witness told Chauvin he was a fighter and trained in MMA, and technically his hands and feet can be counted as registered weapons, so they were somewhat concerned about him. The officers were too distracted by the witnesses and that shouldn't have been the case. Chauvin should have let the other officers focus on the crowd, and focused on what he was doing. He f'd up there. I don't know how much pressure was being put on him after he passed out or why they didn't do cpr, but I don't see murder. I see manslaughter. What's done is done though. The trial is over and the verdict was what it was. I'm not going to go on beating a dead horse. A 12 year sentence to be reduced with good behaviour doesn't sound that unfair.

The last few minutes Floyd was down, he was not moving. You clearly have never watched the video. 
He was not kicking the entire time he was held down. He was DEAD and still being held down. 
No one cares what you see. The jury saw murder. You are no expert.
Chauvin KNEW he had acted improperly as he LIED about what he had done to his supervisor.

There is nowhere, anywhere, that "reasonable doubt" is quantified as you have done it, (dishonestly ... totally made up).

Oh, and then there's this :
2020 Minnesota Statutes

Murder
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

So much for your ill-informed opinion.

We don't know if he swallowed drugs right before this, and if he did, his friends already said that he was passing out before and they couldn't wake him, so if you add more drugs on top of that if he swallowed any more, then the drugs are going to be affecting him even more. There's a chance his body just gave out from the drugs and his health conditions. Now, you might say there's only a 1 in a million chance of that or 1 in 10 million or 1 in 100 million chance. If we say that maybe there was a 1 in 500 chance of that happening, or 1 in 1000 chance, then that can be argued as reasonable doubt.

Your unfounded speculations for which there was no evidence introduced, are not reasonable doubt.
You should take a class in the law some day. Obviously you know nothing about how the law or evidence works.
If what you don't know constitutes reasonable doubt, no one would ever get convicted of anything.
We don't know if aliens shot laser weapons at Floyd.

[Angrboda]

 You think that because you don't understand the charges, no matter how many times they've been explained and reexplained to you.  If twenty other things contributed to floyds death, chauvins knee was still one of them - and that's enough for a murder charge.  There's no reasonable doubt that chauvins knee was among the things that contributed to the mans death.

Charged with and convicted for extreme recklessness in the process of committing an assault which led to a mans death.  AKA, exactly what you, I, and everyone else saw him do for a good ten minutes..... on video.

It's not factual that the knee contributed to the death. We can't be 100 percent sure. Floyd said many times that he couldn't breathe before he was taken to the ground. He said he was dying or going to die before he was taken to the ground. We don't know if he swallowed drugs right before this, and if he did, his friends already said that he was passing out before and they couldn't wake him, so if you add more drugs on top of that if he swallowed any more, then the drugs are going to be affecting him even more. There's a chance his body just gave out from the drugs and his health conditions. Now, you might say there's only a 1 in a million chance of that or 1 in 10 million or 1 in 100 million chance. If we say that maybe there was a 1 in 500 chance of that happening, or 1 in 1000 chance, then that can be argued as reasonable doubt. I don't know if the doubt was reasonable, so I probably would have tried to convince my fellow jurors to settle for manslaughter.

Sure, that makes a lot of sense, or at least it would if we chose to ignore the results of two autopsies and the testimony of six doctors.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It's not factual that the knee contributed to the death.

That's a fantastically good point, since any of a number of things that immediately precede the death of an individual often don't cause their demise. For example, Julius Caesar suffered from gout, so there's really no reason to suppose that the 44 stab wounds contributed to his death. And Abraham Lincoln likely had Marfan Syndrome which can lead to an aortic aneurysm, so the bullet in his brain was probably coincidental.

Boru