Chauvin Murder Trial

[Rev. Rye]

Does anyone else have a problem with the prosecution not wanting Floyd's dealer, Morries Hall, to testify? He's one of the most important witnesses, but they won't give him immunity and therefore he's refusing to testify. Not a good look for the prosecution pulling this crap. If I'm a juror, I definitely take into account that the prosecution prevented him from testifying.

You say the prosecution prevented Hall from testifying, and yet you also state that he’s refusing to testify, which implies that they want him to do so, but the problem is on him. Both of these cannot be true. You can argue that the prosecutors should have just given him the immunity (and I’d probably agree), but I don’t think this case would live or die on his testimony. It looks like there’s enough damning evidence that a guilty verdict should be all but guaranteed in a sane world. Now let’s see how it works in this world.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Does anyone else have a problem with the prosecution not wanting Floyd's dealer, Morries Hall, to testify? He's one of the most important witnesses, but they won't give him immunity and therefore he's refusing to testify. Not a good look for the prosecution pulling this crap. If I'm a juror, I definitely take into account that the prosecution prevented him from testifying.

You say the prosecution prevented Hall from testifying, and yet you also state that he’s refusing to testify, which implies that they want him to do so, but the problem is on him. Both of these cannot be true. You can argue that the prosecutors should have just given him the immunity (and I’d probably agree), but I don’t think this case would live or die on his testimony. It looks like there’s enough damning evidence that a guilty verdict should be all but guaranteed in a sane world. Now let’s see how it works in this world.

You are being too literal. They are not literally preventing him from testifying. Semantics. The defense wants him to testify, and they won't give him immunity, therefore they are indirectly preventing him from testifying. If I were on the jury, I'd be wondering what the prosecution is scared of and why they don't want this witness to testify. Trying to hide witnesses like this is beyond shady.

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A top legal expert, in this backwards country, will defend any obviously guilty person.

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If the money is right.

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Mark Geragos does not work for Derek Chauvin. Right now, the work Mark is doing is mostly suing cops and holding them to account. He's calling it like he sees it. This case was never as clear cut as people liked to think.

[Brian37]

I don't think he'll be found guilty of murder. He was using an approved hold and Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD, along with his serious medical conditions. Chauvin should have realized that Floyd was in medical distress and he fucked up there, but I don't think that rises to the level of a murder conviction.

But he will none the less be a murderer

Yes he did, there is police cam video/audio that shows another officer asking if he(Chauvin) should adjust George's position after they(the questioning officer) noticed that George was unresponsive but Chauvin objected and kept his position. Keep in mind, his knee was on his kneck for almost 7 minutes by that point. And it took another 3 almost 4 minutes after he became motionless to get George into the ambulance.

If Chauvin doesn't get convicted of something  IA(IrreligiousAtheist) it will mean unfortunately that our society is still being held hostage by Antebellum, Jim Crow bullshit.

[Rev. Rye]

I was going to point out that, according to the transcripts, at least one other witness pointed out that Floyd wasn’t responding, not even breathing (Speaker 13), but, apparently the remark you’re talking about happened before that.

[Irreligious Atheist]

But he will none the less be a murderer

Yes he did, there is police cam video/audio that shows another officer asking if he(Chauvin) should adjust George's position after they(the questioning officer) noticed that George was unresponsive but Chauvin objected and kept his position. Keep in mind, his knee was on his kneck for almost 7 minutes by that point. And it took another 3 almost 4 minutes after he became motionless to get George into the ambulance.

If Chauvin doesn't get convicted of something  IA(IrreligiousAtheist) it will mean unfortunately that our society is still being held hostage by Antebellum, Jim Crow bullshit.

Antebellum bullshit? A white man, Tony Timpa, died in a similar manner with the police on top of him. Those police officers are still working as police officers to this day, other than one of them who voluntarily retired. Tony Timpa's family didn't get 27 million dollars either.

[The Grand Nudger]

Nobody cares about the whites anymore.

[Rev. Rye]

Yes he did, there is police cam video/audio that shows another officer asking if he(Chauvin) should adjust George's position after they(the questioning officer) noticed that George was unresponsive but Chauvin objected and kept his position. Keep in mind, his knee was on his kneck for almost 7 minutes by that point. And it took another 3 almost 4 minutes after he became motionless to get George into the ambulance.

If Chauvin doesn't get convicted of something  IA(IrreligiousAtheist) it will mean unfortunately that our society is still being held hostage by Antebellum, Jim Crow bullshit.

Antebellum bullshit? A white man, Tony Timpa, died in a similar manner with the police on top of him. Those police officers are still working as police officers to this day, other than one of them who voluntarily retired. Tony Timpa's family didn't get 27 million dollars either.

Because people aren’t as familiar with the stigmas against mental illness that helped lead to his death. Plus it wasn’t filmed by witnesses who publicized the shit out of it.

To quote Sir Humphrey Appleby: “ Those abuses had been going on happily for years. Nobody was concerned what was being done [to innocent people]. What outraged them was being told.”

The Tony Timpa case is not a bludgeon to be used against people protesting police brutality against black people by saying “you see, white people get brutalized, too! Your argument is invalid.” If anything, it’s a case that showcases a parallel prejudice against mental illness. A man with schizophrenia calls the police, afraid of what’ll happen now that he’s off his meds and gets killed for it.

[Brian37]

Yes he did, there is police cam video/audio that shows another officer asking if he(Chauvin) should adjust George's position after they(the questioning officer) noticed that George was unresponsive but Chauvin objected and kept his position. Keep in mind, his knee was on his kneck for almost 7 minutes by that point. And it took another 3 almost 4 minutes after he became motionless to get George into the ambulance.

If Chauvin doesn't get convicted of something  IA(IrreligiousAtheist) it will mean unfortunately that our society is still being held hostage by Antebellum, Jim Crow bullshit.

Antebellum bullshit? A white man, Tony Timpa, died in a similar manner with the police on top of him. Those police officers are still working as police officers to this day, other than one of them who voluntarily retired. Tony Timpa's family didn't get 27 million dollars either.

Nobody in this thread has ever claimed white people never die by the hands of police. But there is a huge ratio disparity as to risk of death when interacting with police. Once as a teen I had a full size replica toy cap gun, no re noses required at the time back in the 80s. Cops were called  because someone thought I was firing a real gun. Cop jumped out of his car pointed his gun at me, BUT waited for me to explain it was a toy and didn't shoot me. Another time in my early 20s I got pulled over for speeding, made the mistake of mouthing off, but made it to the police station alive and released unharmed. The disorderly was dropped, but I still had to pay the traffic ticket. They didn't even pull a gun on me during that. 

Sandra Bland however, died in police custody over a minor traffic pull over she confronted the cop verbally and got arrested for it. Just this weekend a black Lt military EMT was pulled over for an improper mounting of his temorary tag. That Lt was smart in putting his hands out of the window. He shouldn't have had to though considering it was not a fellony stop. Point is, that Lt would have been more likely to be shot than I would have under similar circumstances.

So when you say whites get roughed up, and or shot sometimes, it is still nowhere near the rate blacks have to worry about.

[The Grand Nudger]

Give them time. There's nothing that law enforcement has ever practiced on a minority that they won't inflict on the majority.

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Cops in Minnesota just having a ball. Murdered somebody else, called it an accidental discharge. On account of how the officer accidentally grabbed her handgun instead of her taser, and squeezed off a round.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Antebellum bullshit? A white man, Tony Timpa, died in a similar manner with the police on top of him. Those police officers are still working as police officers to this day, other than one of them who voluntarily retired. Tony Timpa's family didn't get 27 million dollars either.

Nobody in this thread has ever claimed white people never die by the hands of police. But there is a huge ratio disparity as to risk of death when interacting with police. Once as a teen I had a full size replica toy cap gun, no re noses required at the time back in the 80s. Cops were called  because someone thought I was firing a real gun. Cop jumped out of his car pointed his gun at me, BUT waited for me to explain it was a toy and didn't shoot me. Another time in my early 20s I got pulled over for speeding, made the mistake of mouthing off, but made it to the police station alive and released unharmed. The disorderly was dropped, but I still had to pay the traffic ticket. They didn't even pull a gun on me during that. 

Sandra Bland however, died in police custody over a minor traffic pull over she confronted the cop verbally and got arrested for it. Just this weekend a black Lt military EMT was pulled over for an improper mounting of his temorary tag. That Lt was smart in putting his hands out of the window. He shouldn't have had to though considering it was not a fellony stop. Point is, that Lt would have been more likely to be shot than I would have under similar circumstances.

So when you say whites get roughed up, and or shot sometimes, it is still nowhere near the rate blacks have to worry about.

Blacks and whites actually get killed by police at a very similar rate compared to interactions with police. All those extra interactions cause bullshit like them being way more likely than whites to go to jail for drug possession while the races use at a similar rate, but at the same time, poor black areas are obviously policed more because that's where the gang activity is.

You bring up Tamir Rice. The sad thing about that is that there actually are 12 year old kids walking around with real guns, in gangs. That's the screwed up reality. Instead of literal reparations (although UBI may not be such a bad idea, for all races though obviously), poor black people need useful reparations like major investment in the community and schools so 12 year olds hopefully aren't walking around with guns.

I know very well how cops can be pricks. When I was 12, a cop threatened to arrest me if I didn't snitch and tell him about a fight I had witnessed. I said go ahead and do it. No snitching. There is no evidence of any racism in what happened to George Floyd. You and the media are just making that connection because you want it to be true. You don't know it to be true. If it was another white guy killed or mentally challenged guy killed, you wouldn't be calling it Antebellum bullshit, and we can't specifically say that race had anything to do with Floyd dying, or for that matter we can't say that racism would have anything to do with Derek Chauvin being found not guilty. There are black people on the jury. Dude took a bunch of drugs. When you do that and you end up dying by a not as obvious means as a gunshot, you're not going to necessarily get the benefit of the doubt. Beyond reasonable doubt is a high standard to clear.