Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 10, 2022, 2:38 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is there free will in Heaven?
#21
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 5, 2021 at 1:18 pm)Drich Wrote:
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?

Isn't that the same as sin? Opposition to the will of God.

Is there sin in Heaven?

I don't believe that the idea of Heaven and Hell makes sense. Most notably regarding the problem of choice and identity.

If you no longer have the option to choose things that are wrong, to make mistakes, or to challenge/disobey God, are you even the same person?

No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.

Isn't that difficult to reconcile with a third of the angels rebelling?
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Reply
#22
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 6, 2021 at 4:20 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: But is there free will in Narnia?

You read my mind.  FSM Grin

Is there Christmas in heaven?



Reply
#23
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
I believe Augustine's view was that Free will is the origin of sin, so if that holds true then I would assume no to the OP.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Reply
#24
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
More that a misuse of free will is the origin of evil - not free will itself - that would put god on the hook for creating or giving it to us. Precisely the interpretation he wished to dispute.

Amusingly, he held that a misuse of free will was the origin of moral and natural evil. Somehow, john playing with his pecker too many times...caused tsunamis. Augustinian theodicy not only maintains that we have free will and free will in heaven or hell - it depends on it for gods justness - and as an allegedly just god, so too it's existence.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#25
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
Yup, that's the one TGN - when theists say "evil 'cos free will!" the auto response should always be: "Tsunamis? Childhood cancer? Congenital birth defects?"
Reply
#26
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
A man they call a saint believed as much, and believed that his gods existence depended on that being true. We're supposed to believe that he was some enlightened figure of credible authority. In mere reality, he was a man in a costume that shook rattles to ward off bad juju.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#27
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 5, 2021 at 2:23 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(April 5, 2021 at 1:50 pm)Drich Wrote: "we"  do it is in the Lord's prayer.. the proof of this prayer is recorded in luke 11:

11 And it came to pass that as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, “Lord, teach us to pray as John also taught his disciples.”

And He said unto them, “When ye pray, say: Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in Heaven, so on earth.


Sew.... if God's will is being done and we (those who will inhabit heaven to one degree or another ) have been instructed to and indeed pray for God's will to be done... then we are asking for God's will God's idea of a kingdom to supersede our own will and thoughts of will.

As an admittedly disgruntled member of ‘we all’, I can assure you that not everyone prays for God’s will to be done.

And I notice that the passage you quoted does not contain the pronoun ‘we’.

Boru

read the whole passage. one of disciples came to jesus and asked him to teach them how to they should pray. meaning not only them but all of his followers as the example given by john the Baptist taught all of his followers..   And it came to pass that as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, “Lord, teach us to pray as John also taught his disciples.”

this is the one and only prayer Jesus gave us as an official example of prayer. no Christian can deny the lord's prayer. every Christian has prayed it. as it is the only pray ever written down as a template for all pray by Christ himself.

(April 5, 2021 at 8:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(April 5, 2021 at 1:18 pm)Drich Wrote: No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.

Sounds like a blast, lol.

once you lived in the will of God, life has meaning makes sense as you yield your will and accept his you will come to understand you have been made for a very specific purpose and will find real joy and contentment in what it is you do. if you are truly happy because you have found your intended role in this life what does it matter who's will you serve?

(April 5, 2021 at 10:25 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Oh goody, Drich got a day pass.

buying guns cars trucks and ammo all day can wear a person out. Sometimes one needs a change of scenery.

(April 6, 2021 at 10:00 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:
(April 5, 2021 at 1:18 pm)Drich Wrote: No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.

Isn't that difficult to reconcile with a third of the angels rebelling?

angels are a higher order of being. the closer to god a being is the more 'freedoms' he has. look at all the power ;Lucifer was given. he was given so much he thought he was god or could be... Adam never felt that way.. that said being given an option of a singular choice like the tree of knowledge is not the same of free will. even slaves in colonial times were sometimes given the option to marry and could even buy certain freedoms. even so no one then or now would considered them totally free/equal. even if they had no direct master. most were restricted to certain cities or territories could not own land, could not vote ect. like wise even though the angels rebelled they are not deities or have the freedom of God. they still answer to God

look at the first chapter of JOB Satan still answers to God as a servant. so even with the freedoms he had he still submitted to 
God.

and also when Jesus cast out demons more specifically the legion of demons possessing the one man who lived in a cemetery. the legion feared Christ and asked to be drown in a heard of pigs rather than face Christ judgement at that time.

bottom line rebellion is not an example of free will if God allowed it.
Reply
#28
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
I allow my kids to eat chocolate, too. Don't get me wrong, your beliefs about this are no more or less ridiculous, but your explanation for those beliefs is just silly. I'm not sure it's great marketing for the cause, either. Your gods gonna give everyone a lobotomy, that's the reward in heaven for being faithful to a ghostly asshole on earth?

Pass.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#29
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
72 virgins will remove need for free will. Just praise God and please your wifes!
[Image: keep-calm-and-praise-the-sun.jpg]
Reply
#30
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 5, 2021 at 1:18 pm)Drich Wrote:
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?

Isn't that the same as sin? Opposition to the will of God.

Is there sin in Heaven?

I don't believe that the idea of Heaven and Hell makes sense. Most notably regarding the problem of choice and identity.

If you no longer have the option to choose things that are wrong, to make mistakes, or to challenge/disobey God, are you even the same person?

No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.

We have to pray for god's will to be done? Forever? No choice allowed? 

Surely god shouldn't need our prayers to do anything at all, right? He is all-powerful, right? He needs no prayers from us, right?

The only way your god needs anything from us is if he is so feeble that he is unable to do anything without us. He is dependent on us and our prayers. Why would you worship such a weak and ineffectual deity?

Furthermore, how is sitting around for eternity praying for your god to succeed but never managing to do so for eternity any different than us not existing at all? Is your god that Donald Trump of all gods, merely demanding the praise but never achieving anything?
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Eternity in Heaven - Scary? JairCrawford 47 3668 July 26, 2018 at 2:43 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Pope Francis -- dogs go to Heaven! Jehanne 34 4457 October 19, 2017 at 3:46 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  There is a difference between salvation, and the rewards of Heaven Drich 45 12019 July 31, 2017 at 9:27 am
Last Post: Drich
  Why do Christians want to go to Heaven? Fake Messiah 52 16854 June 28, 2017 at 9:29 am
Last Post: Astonished
  "heaven" meme on facebook drfuzzy 34 6092 May 2, 2016 at 4:44 am
Last Post: GUBU
  Are there animals in heaven? Mermaid 53 7482 November 7, 2015 at 3:25 pm
Last Post: Thumpalumpacus
  My thoughts on heaven dyresand 24 6006 November 3, 2015 at 5:57 pm
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  Bible way to Heaven sinnerdaniel94 362 44011 October 14, 2015 at 3:41 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Heaven is full of tapeworms Brakeman 15 3927 August 13, 2015 at 10:23 am
Last Post: orangebox21
  Will Humans Have Freewill in Heaven? Rhondazvous 230 27683 July 21, 2015 at 6:17 pm
Last Post: Metis



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)