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Is there free will in Heaven?
#31
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
Why does a god need prayer anyway?
Is prayer a kind of food for a god? like a Psychic vampire?
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!

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#32
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 6, 2021 at 5:39 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Why does a god need prayer anyway?
Is prayer a kind of food for a god?   like a Psychic vampire?

A fundamental tenet of theology is that God doesn't need anything. 

As defined by certain pre-Christian Greeks, and then carried on into Christianity: "prayer is the ardent disposition of the pure soul, a disposition devoted to God and desirous of what is seen to be good." It seeks to change the person praying, to bring him or her more in line with the Good.
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#33
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 6, 2021 at 11:49 am)Drich Wrote:
(April 5, 2021 at 2:23 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: As an admittedly disgruntled member of ‘we all’, I can assure you that not everyone prays for God’s will to be done.

And I notice that the passage you quoted does not contain the pronoun ‘we’.

Boru

read the whole passage. one of disciples came to jesus and asked him to teach them how to they should pray. meaning not only them but all of his followers as the example given by john the Baptist taught all of his followers..   And it came to pass that as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, one of His disciples said unto Him, “Lord, teach us to pray as John also taught his disciples.”

this is the one and only prayer Jesus gave us as an official example of prayer. no Christian can deny the lord's prayer. every Christian has prayed it. as it is the only pray ever written down as a template for all pray by Christ himself.

(April 5, 2021 at 8:00 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Sounds like a blast, lol.

once you lived in the will of God, life has meaning makes sense as you yield your will and accept his you will come to understand you have been made for a very specific purpose and will find real joy and contentment in what it is you do. if you are truly happy because you have found your intended role in this life what does it matter who's will you serve?

I have meaning, joy and contentment without having to “serve” any god.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#34
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 6, 2021 at 8:25 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I have meaning, joy and contentment without having to “serve” any god.

Hmph well i have more, and it is because i serve God.

(April 6, 2021 at 5:39 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Why does a god need prayer anyway?
Is prayer a kind of food for a god?   like a Psychic vampire?

look at the lord prayer as an outline...\

the prayer is not for God but rather for us... it is conditioning for one to seek what God want for your life rather than a wishing ceremony.

1 acknowledge God is sovern (our father who is in heaven hollowed is your name)

2 As for his will his authority become the law of the land and the righteousnesss that guides you life. (your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven)

3 ask for your daily need (give us this day our daily bread)

4 then ask God to forgive you in so far as you can forgive others/if you can forgive other you are asking god not to forgive you (Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us) 

the above is what prayer is according to christ himself. everything else is supplication/wish ceremony

(April 6, 2021 at 12:55 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I allow my kids to eat chocolate, too.  Don't get me wrong, your beliefs about this are no more or less ridiculous, but your explanation for those beliefs is just silly.  I'm not sure it's great marketing for the cause, either.  Your gods gonna give everyone a lobotomy, that's the reward in heaven for being faithful to a ghostly asshole on earth?

Pass.

My explaination has not even been discussed. I believe we are a dual natured being. a physical host and a spiritual symbiote. what you understand free will to be is allowing the physical based being choose between what it wants and why the symbiote wants. So what happens when the host body dies? Why would the Spiritual being still want what the host wanted? unless it was a measure to simply hate god? As a spiritual being what could you possible want other than what you were designed by God to do? and if God gave you that/put you in a role that would give you contentment and joy.. what else could you want?

(April 6, 2021 at 5:17 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote:
(April 5, 2021 at 1:18 pm)Drich Wrote: No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.

We have to pray for god's will to be done? Forever? No choice allowed? 
Our Father who is in heaven hollowed be your name. your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If God's will is being done here, is there room for your will, what if your will is to sin? God's will in not sin. So if you prayed as Jesus taught us to pray the lord's prayer you have prayed for God's will to supercede you own will, even if you did not fully understand what you are asking for.
Quote:Surely god shouldn't need our prayers to do anything at all, right? He is all-powerful, right? He needs no prayers from us, right?
as you can see in the lord's prayer the prayer is not for God but rather to help us to accept the changes needed for us to become close to God.
Quote:The only way your god needs anything from us is if he is so feeble that he is unable to do anything without us. He is dependent on us and our prayers. Why would you worship such a weak and ineffectual deity?
or maybe your understanding/rebuttal here does not follow what was said/nonsecquiter
Quote:Furthermore, how is sitting around for eternity praying for your god to succeed but never managing to do so for eternity any different than us not existing at all? Is your god that Donald Trump of all gods, merely demanding the praise but never achieving anything?
who said anything about praying for eternity??? this is a lazy dishonest exegesis of scripture. are the stars not infinate? are we not to spend eternity with God? why then would he create an infinite universe if it were only for this small span of life? Wouldn't a logical person think that our eternity with God would have something to do with the eternity that is our cosmos?
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#35
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 7, 2021 at 2:35 pm)Drich Wrote:
(April 6, 2021 at 12:55 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I allow my kids to eat chocolate, too.  Don't get me wrong, your beliefs about this are no more or less ridiculous, but your explanation for those beliefs is just silly.  I'm not sure it's great marketing for the cause, either.  Your gods gonna give everyone a lobotomy, that's the reward in heaven for being faithful to a ghostly asshole on earth?

Pass.
So what happens when the host body dies? Why would the Spiritual being still want what the host wanted? unless it was a measure to simply hate god? As a spiritual being what could you possible want other than what you were designed by God to do? and if God gave you that/put you in a role that would give you contentment and joy.. what else could you want?

Who knows, it's your fairy tale, not mine.  I don't see why spiritual beings couldn;t have wants, or why wanting the same things as a god, even, would mean that those weren't their wants.

Don't even need to invoke the great fairy to understand this one.  Just because I allow my kids to do something, doesn't mean that they aren't doing it because they want to..and even when we both want the same things, they still seem to possess their end of our mutual appreciation. Don't get me wrong, great when it happens, but I generally have to work a little harder at getting agreement than your silly god....and I certainly handle it better when there's a disagreement, or when one of my kids simply wants something that I don't.

You say we lose that when we die, somehow, someway - I say fine, if so.....

Pass.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#36
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 7, 2021 at 3:06 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(April 7, 2021 at 2:35 pm)Drich Wrote:
So what happens when the host body dies? Why would the Spiritual being still want what the host wanted? unless it was a measure to simply hate god? As a spiritual being what could you possible want other than what you were designed by God to do? and if God gave you that/put you in a role that would give you contentment and joy.. what else could you want?

Who knows, it's your fairy tale, not mine.  I don't see why spiritual beings couldn;t have wants, or why wanting the same things as a god, even, would mean that those weren't their wants.

Don't even need to invoke the great fairy to understand this one.  Just because I allow my kids to do something, doesn't mean that they aren't doing it because they want to..and even when we both want the same things, they still seem to possess their end of our mutual appreciation.  Don't get me wrong, great when it happens, but I generally have to work a little harder at getting agreement than your silly god....and I certainly handle it better when there's a disagreement, or when one of my kids simply wants something that I don't.

You say we lose that when we die, somehow, someway - I say fine, if so.....

Pass.

honestly what i am describing is the ultimate net end result. where god's people and god's will are one. I personally want this now because of the good it has done me in my life.) this however happens for most over a series of time periods of time. first is our life here and now, and again after this time of man is over the saved from this period will live with Christ for 1000 years and the devil will be released again to tempt and thin out the crowd once again. after that time satan will be locked away with his followers never to bother christ or his children again.
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#37
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 7, 2021 at 2:35 pm)Drich Wrote:
(April 6, 2021 at 8:25 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I have meaning, joy and contentment without having to “serve” any god.

Hmph well i have more, and it is because i serve God.

In order for you to know that you have more meaning, joy, and contentment than me you’d have to have some method for knowing how much I have in the first place, otherwise you have nothing to compare your own against.
You obviously can’t know that because you aren’t me, which means you’re just being a dismissive, pretentious, narcissistic douche.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#38
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
That's the hitch, isn't it? I guess it's just too bad that I don't want what you want - but from this end it sounds like satan is getting the better half of the deal. Gods up there with his pleasure bots just praising him all day long, sure...but Old Scratch never has to deal with a christian again.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#39
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Is there free will in Heaven?

I guess I could tell you that "Heaven" is a made-up place so it is whatever you make it up to be. And since this is in Christian subforum, Christians did make it up as a totalitarian place where there does not seem to be any free will. You could even call it a celestial North Korea. I mean take Dante who removed from Heaven and placed into Hell everyone who thinks even a little bit more different than a narrow number of members of a particulate Christian denomination. So not only did he remove from Heaven all old greek philosophers, Muslims, Jews, but also Christians with other ideas who were regarded as heretics - and what do all these people have in common is that they just think differently, they are not bad people and certainly not worst than Christians - a lot of them are even better, but the taught is what counts to that dictator that runs Heaven.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#40
RE: Is there free will in Heaven?
(April 5, 2021 at 1:18 pm)Drich Wrote:
(March 25, 2021 at 2:39 pm)Five Wrote: Can I choose to disobey God once I am in Heaven?

Isn't that the same as sin? Opposition to the will of God.

Is there sin in Heaven?

I don't believe that the idea of Heaven and Hell makes sense. Most notably regarding the problem of choice and identity.

If you no longer have the option to choose things that are wrong, to make mistakes, or to challenge/disobey God, are you even the same person?

No free will in Heaven. 
We all pray for God will be done, as his will is righteous and will free from righteousness is evil.

In other words, in heaven you are dead.
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