Noteworthy News

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's was more about telling themselves they Rugged, Individualist Americans™, by God.

To be honest I always saw them as crybabies "oppressed" by big, bad, mean gov. And of course greedy fuck ups not wanting to pay their part in taxes.

I was one of them for fifteen years. Most of us were interested in limiting government, keeping taxes low too.

[Ivan Denisovich]

To be honest I always saw them as crybabies "oppressed" by big, bad, mean gov. And of course greedy fuck ups not wanting to pay their part in taxes.

I was one of them for fifteen years. Most of us were interested in limiting government, keeping taxes low too.

I'm glad that you aren't one now. I might understand people wanting limited gov (night watchman state in more extreme version) or low taxes but limited gov is a weak gov and thus of no use in safeguarding citizens from corporations greed (but still strong enough to look into people bedrooms) and countries being really good to live in aren't exactly known for having low taxes (though there might be exceptions). And of course there is world of difference between wanting low taxes and seeing taxes as robbery.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was one of them for fifteen years. Most of us were interested in limiting government, keeping taxes low too.

I'm glad that you aren't one now. I might understand people wanting limited gov (night watchman state in more extreme version) or low taxes but limited gov is a weak gov and thus of no use in safeguarding citizens from corporations greed (but still strong enough to look into people bedrooms) and countries being really good to live in aren't exactly known for having low taxes (though there might be exceptions). And of course there is world of difference between wanting low taxes and seeing taxes as robbery.

Yeah, it took a while for me to come to my senses. As a political philosophy, it actually shares the same major flaw as Marxism/Leninism -- it forgets the undying power of human greed to twist even the most noble of intentions.

[Ivan Denisovich]

I'm glad that you aren't one now. I might understand people wanting limited gov (night watchman state in more extreme version) or low taxes but limited gov is a weak gov and thus of no use in safeguarding citizens from corporations greed (but still strong enough to look into people bedrooms) and countries being really good to live in aren't exactly known for having low taxes (though there might be exceptions). And of course there is world of difference between wanting low taxes and seeing taxes as robbery.

Yeah, it took a while for me to come to my senses. As a political philosophy, it actually shares the same major flaw as Marxism/Leninism -- it forgets the undying power of human greed to twist even the most noble of intentions.

You did and many don't so that's a success. Also I wouldn't ascribe noble intentions to libertarianism or Marxism-Leninism. In fact it's something that baffles me. I mean Marx did not write all that much about what communism will look like so there isn't much basis to ascribe nobility to it (I for one don't deem disappearance of state to be good) and yet people do so quite often, at least in my experience. In my view it's just some made up crap with platitudes thrown in (from everyone according to ability, to everyone according to his need) that was as possible to achieve as all people being strong like Hercules, wise like Socrates and brave like Leonidas. And basis for Soviet state religion of course which also don't add anything to it's supposed nobility.

[Deesse23]

[The Grand Nudger]

To be honest I always saw them as crybabies "oppressed" by big, bad, mean gov. And of course greedy fuck ups not wanting to pay their part in taxes.

I was one of them for fifteen years. Most of us were interested in limiting government, keeping taxes low too.

Used to be where you went when you wanted less bigotry, weaker intrusion, lower taxes, and more weed.  No point in litigating whether that was all a front, as my tender 18yr old self did not come into politics with all the right opinions, the benefit of lifelong experience, or the full catalogue of libertarian hot-takes since.  

White supremacist->republican->libertarian->non participator. I like to think I've been getting better, lol. When white supremacy went left wing (in it's language and organizing principles as a propaganda strategy, calm down) I became a republican. When I had my come to jesus moment on white supremacy I became a libertarian. When I began to wonder whether I had fired a weapon at other human beings for the benefit of stock futures I became a non participator.

I do think that having been firmly in the tank for something I now know to be not only false, but wrong, is a valuable experience to have. So I hear people proudly proclaim that they've always been on the right side of every issue, or that theyve always seen things for "how they are".... and on the one hand I strongly duobt that - but when I accept it for novel values of all variables I think to myself......I'm glad to have been wrong and gone through that. I think it gives me clarity....but...I would, wouldn't I....rightly or wrongly.

(I would also like to point out that a weak us government is not a bad thing..from the pov that the us gov is a piece of shit with any power you give them....which as far as I can tell, is a bipartisan belief. Not that it matters, since we've made our government very strong where it intends to harm and very weak if it intends to help...skewing impressions and outcomes - my own included. It may be that the only reason, truly, that I haven't gone down the maga demonhole is that I think past governments were worse with this, not better. Listen to me for five fuckin seconds and you'll realize that I'm also a militant accelerationist. I don't disagree with maga about what's up - I disagree with them about who needs to be in a camp in the desert. Food for thought.)

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, it took a while for me to come to my senses. As a political philosophy, it actually shares the same major flaw as Marxism/Leninism -- it forgets the undying power of human greed to twist even the most noble of intentions.

You did and many don't so that's a success. Also I wouldn't ascribe noble intentions to libertarianism or Marxism-Leninism. In fact it's something that baffles me. I mean Marx did not write all that much about what communism will look like so there isn't much basis to ascribe nobility to it (I for one don't deem disappearance of state to be good) and yet people do so quite often, at least in my experience. In my view it's just some made up crap with platitudes thrown in (from everyone according to ability, to everyone according to his need) that was as possible to achieve as all people being strong like Hercules, wise like Socrates and brave like Leonidas. And basis for Soviet state religion of course which also don't add anything to it's supposed nobility.

When I mentioned "nobility", I was talking about how the adherents believed that what they adhered to would actually produce a better world for all. They thought that assigning production to the people, or trusting magnates to do the right thing following the money, would in the end in both cases result in a better society for all.

That's clearly not the case in either instance because both systems ignore the basic urge of greed.

Of course, after both systems are shown flawed, apologists show up to explain why this or that experiment (Soviet Union, Gilded Age in America) went wrong, not because the ideology was wrong, but "the people didn't implement it right".

This ignores the fact that in both cases, greed -- for power or money or control -- is for better or worse an essential human quality.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was one of them for fifteen years. Most of us were interested in limiting government, keeping taxes low too.

Used to be where you went when you wanted less bigotry, weaker intrusion, lower taxes, and more weed.  No point in litigating whether that was all a front, as my tender 18yr old self did not come into politics with all the right opinions, the benefit of lifelong experience, or the full catalogue of libertarian hot-takes since.  

White supremacist->republican->libertarian->non participator.  I like to think I've been getting better, lol.  When white supremacy went left wing (in it's language and organizing principles as a propaganda strategy, calm down) I became a republican.  When I had my come to jesus moment on white supremacy I became a libertarian.  When I began to wonder whether I had fired a weapon at other human beings for the benefit of stock futures I became a non participator.

I do think that having been firmly in the tank for something I now know to be not only false, but wrong, is a valuable experience to have.  So I hear people proudly proclaim that they've always been on the right side of every issue, or that theyve always seen things for "how they are".... and on the one hand I strongly duobt that - but when I accept it for novel values of all variables I think to myself......I'm glad to have been wrong and gone through that.  I think it gives me clarity....but...I would, wouldn't I....rightly or wrongly.

(I would also like to point out that a weak us government is not a bad thing..from the pov that the us gov is a piece of shit with any power you give them....which as far as I can tell, is a bipartisan belief.  Not that it matters, since we've made our government very strong where it intends to harm and very weak if it intends to help...skewing impressions and outcomes - my own included.  It may be that the only reason, truly, that I haven't gone down the maga demonhole is that I think past governments were worse with this, not better.  Listen to me for five fuckin seconds and you'll realize that I'm also a militant accelerationist.  I don't disagree with maga about what's up - I disagree with them about who needs to be in a camp in the desert.  Food for thought.)

There's a lot to chew on here, with agreement and disagreement, but I can't give this reply the response it deserves right now. I've got to fetch up dinner and handle bidness here, but I will return to give your response a deserving answer.

[Thumpalumpacus]

[Nanny]

I voted for Badnerick, Johnson, and Jorgensen. In succession. The LP has been overrun with antivax, anti immigrant, anti anything but their flavor of christian nationalism, that they've coopted the brand. Chase Oliver is one of a dying breed, and not without his own baggage. The LP is now the party of oppression via individualism. Freedumb.

ETA - Today's LP is the hillbilly to Ned Beatty's character in Deliverance.