I have some questions for the posters here.

[Frank Apisa]

Hit reply at the end of a post you want to reply to.  That post will show up and you post your response under the line.

Thank you.

If I want to break the reply down into several pieces, is there a way to do that. In other fora the means to do it are by insertions of [/quote] and then starting a new quote. Will that work with this set-up?

---

@Frank Apisa

Can we cut to the chase? What do you believe and why?

I do not do "believing", Lady. I do have opinions...and I make guesses. But I never call my opinions or guesses "beliefs."

I have stated my opinion on this issue a couple of times already, but here it is again:

On the question "Are there any gods?" my take is:

I do not know if any "gods"** exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

**When I use the word "god" I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF THERE IS SUCH AN ENTITY."

[arewethereyet]

I don't normally do multi quotes but for other things you start your quote with quote in the brackets and end it with /quote in brackets.

There's probably someone here who knows a better way...I just don't use that function often.

[Frank Apisa]

Why do these posts accumulate...rather than posting separately? 

What am I doing wrong...or is the idea to make the posts accumulate?

[LadyForCamus]

Hit reply at the end of a post you want to reply to.  That post will show up and you post your response under the line.

Thank you.

If I want to break the reply down into several pieces, is there a way to do that. In other fora the means to do it are by insertions of

and then starting a new quote. Will that work with this set-up?

---

@Frank Apisa

Can we cut to the chase? What do you believe and why?

I do not do "believing", Lady. I do have opinions...and I make guesses. But I never call my opinions or guesses "beliefs."

I have stated my opinion on this issue a couple of times already, but here it is again:

On the question "Are there any gods?" my take is:

I do not know if any "gods"** exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

**When I use the word "god" I mean "The entity (or entities) responsible for the creation of what we humans call 'the physical universe'...IF THERE IS SUCH AN ENTITY."

So, why are you here?

[Frank Apisa]

I notice that there are no theistic world creators in our world.

Are you sure?

Surely you have not looked everywhere in "this world"...and done it all at the same moment?

I notice that the stories are literary vehicles for cultural narratives, normative and expository..and at least a little bit, pure fun and mastery of craft.  What's the problem?

No problem. I agree with you.

Although some of the stories suck, big time. That god of Abraham is one cruel bastard in my opinion. I'd sooner worship Loki than that god. Although I would much rather not do any of that worshiping stuff.

You're asking me whether tinker bell exists and expressing incredulity when I say no as a matter of fact?

I would never do that. 

But if you are saying "There are no gods" (I'm not entirely sure if you are or not) then I am incredulous. 

Should I not be?

[zwanzig]

I swear, I'm going to have an aneurysm with the coding crap in this thread.

When you post more than once before someone else has responded to the thread, the posts merge. I think there is a time limit on it, like half an hour or an hour when your next post won't merge into your own previous post.

When you go to the main edit page(which can be viewed by hitting "preview post") in the stack of tools there is at the very end a sheet of paper. When you click it, it turns the auto coding off and you can see your messy tags in the current post. 

When doing multi-quotes, make this

Code:

[quote]stuff you quote[/quote]

. YOU MUST POST YOUR OWN RESPONSE OUTSIDE OF THE TAGS.

Here is the MyCode page for this forum: https://atheistforums.org/misc.php?action=help&hid=7

[brewer]

Can't argue a god out of existence and can't argue a god into existence. What's a poor Frank gonna do?

But here's the problem, Frank's assigned some kind of value to god existing or his questions and position would be different.

I think Frank's a closet believer.

(frank, stop touching that, it sees you)

[The Grand Nudger]

I notice that there are no theistic world creators in our world.

Are you sure?

Surely you have not looked everywhere in "this world"...and done it all at the same moment?

I've looked everywhere I need to know to answer the question.  It's not as if a person has to know everything to know anything - I wouldn't know my own name by that standard.

I notice that the stories are literary vehicles for cultural narratives, normative and expository..and at least a little bit, pure fun and mastery of craft.  What's the problem?

No problem. I agree with you.

Although some of the stories suck, big time. That god of Abraham is one cruel bastard in my opinion. I'd sooner worship Loki than that god. Although I would much rather not do any of that worshiping stuff.

Then there we have it, we have a mutually exclusive claim to what gods are.  If what you just agreed to is true, that appears to be an answer to the question of their existence posed as a comment beyond the confines of those stories.

You're asking me whether tinker bell exists and expressing incredulity when I say no as a matter of fact?

I would never do that. 

But if you are saying "There are no gods" (I'm not entirely sure if you are or not) then I am incredulous. 

Should I not be?

-ah, but that's exactly what you've done.  A fairy by any name.  Ask yourself this, though, would the claim I know that there is no -tinkerbell- that particular fairy, be different?  Why should it be.  What planned objection do you have for the possible existence of a god that I could not also apply to tinkerbell, and what assertion of the impossibility of knowledge could I not also apply to my own name?

So, here we have a fairly routine and not at all difficult question. Are the characters in these myths real? The answer is no, as a matter of fact. I get that you might split the baby here, but I don't. The notion of a theistic god, any theistic god....the entire set, the whole genre, literally is a myth that we tell children.

[HappySkeptic]

Here is my opinion on the properties usually associated with gods:

1) The universe requires a prime mover, and that is God.
A) No, it isn't clear that there needs to a be a prime-mover. It doesn't solve the infinite regress problem. Positing an infinitely-complex cause for the universe just increases complexity. If there is a prime-mover (which I think unlikely), there is no reason to think it is intelligent or would fit anyone's definition of a god.

2) The universe has laws, which requires a law-giver, and that is God
A) No, what we call laws are simply logical patterns. That patterns exist (as opposed to no patterns) is not something I need a god to cause (which would have to exist as part of infinitely more complex patterns).

3) Some omni-everything intelligence created your soul and loves you.
A) Huh? Why is that a requirement of the universe, what the heck is a soul, and where is the evidence that any cosmic sky daddy loves me?

Therefore I don't believe in any gods. If you define some different type of god, I'll consider it (as god can mean anything), but at present I don't believe in any gods, and I obviously don't currently believe in things I've never heard of.

[Frank Apisa]

I swear, I'm going to have an aneurysm with the coding crap in this thread.

When you post more than once before someone else has responded to the thread, the posts merge. I think there is a time limit on it, like half an hour or an hour when your next post won't merge into your own previous post.

When you go to the main edit page(which can be viewed by hitting "preview post") in the stack of tools there is at the very end a sheet of paper. When you click it, it turns the auto coding off and you can see your messy tags in the current post. 

When doing multi-quotes, make this

Code:

[quote]stuff you quote[/quote]

. YOU MUST POST YOUR OWN RESPONSE OUTSIDE OF THE TAGS.

Here is the MyCode page for this forum: https://atheistforums.org/misc.php?action=help&hid=7

Thanks, Five. I figured that out just a little earlier, which accounts for the multiple quotes I got in my last post. But the merged posts still are a pain. I am going to answer another post in a few minutes...and it will probably be merged with this one.