I have some questions for the posters here.

[Mister Agenda]

There are plenty of atheists who seem to think 'believe' is a dirty word and use it as a synonym for faith unsupported by evidence.

[Angrboda]

Ignoring that you've gone back and forth on this like you've got Alzheimer's, you haven't provided any reason to believe that this is true.  Your assertion, while incredulous, isn't a valid argument.

An agnostic presumably would be smart enough not to embrace absolutes casually.  So what is your argument?  Incredulity, as stated above, is not an argument.

What in the name of horseshit would make you think that I want you to "believe" that it is true?

I'm in a fucking war with "believing" Angrboda. For you to word your comment the way you did is beyond comprehension.

NOW...the assertion "There are no gods" is an assertion of such universal magnitude that there is no way to prove it. NO WAY AT ALL.

So...no human can possible know it is true.

That is so...inherently.

Get it...do not get it. Makes no difference to me.

Fine. Then let me put it a different way. You have given no valid argument justifying guessing, estimating, or having an opinion that your assertion is true. Why should someone who doesn't share your view adopt your view?

I get it. You think something is true that you have no good reason or argument to think is true. All you've got is an incredulous assertion. That and six bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

If all you've got is your assertion and your incredulity, your opinion on the matter is easily dismissed. If you think you've justified your opinion, then you are wrong.

Do you think it's true that the assertion "There are no gods" is an assertion of such universal magnitude that there is no way to prove it?

[The Grand Nudger]

Sure frank , we can discuss it, but it probably won’t take long- and I think it’s more productive to get at your guess that came towards the end.

I consider two propositions.

One being that you do not “do belief”, the other being your strong claim and constant reassertion of x.

If the second claim is true, which is to say a genuine position that you hold, then you are “doing belief”....-and strongly. If the first claim is true, which is to say an accurate comment on what you do or don’t do...then obviously you cannot believe in the second claim.

Now, you’ll notice I called it x, above? This is a courtesy, you don’t have to bicker with me over whether or not you believe the things you assert as facts, I don’t care what you call x, I want to know why you x that particular thing. I don’t have any interest in making you prove anything.

Why do you x that no one can know whether or not gods exist? What is the explanation for that position? What basis for making that assertion, rational or otherwise?

[Frank Apisa]

What in the name of horseshit would make you think that I want you to "believe" that it is true?

I'm in a fucking war with "believing" Angrboda. For you to word your comment the way you did is beyond comprehension.

NOW...the assertion "There are no gods" is an assertion of such universal magnitude that there is no way to prove it. NO WAY AT ALL.

So...no human can possible know it is true.

That is so...inherently.

Get it...do not get it. Makes no difference to me.

Fine.  Then let me put it a different way.  You have given no valid argument justifying guessing, estimating, or having an opinion that your assertion is true.  Why should someone who doesn't share your view adopt your view?

I get it.  You think something is true that you have no good reason or argument to think is true.  All you've got is an incredulous assertion.  That and six bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

If all you've got is your assertion and your incredulity, your opinion on the matter is easily dismissed.  If you think you've justified your opinion, then you are wrong.

Do you think it's true that the assertion "There are no gods" is an assertion of such universal magnitude that there is no way to prove it?

Yes.

[Angrboda]

Fine.  Then let me put it a different way.  You have given no valid argument justifying guessing, estimating, or having an opinion that your assertion is true.  Why should someone who doesn't share your view adopt your view?

I get it.  You think something is true that you have no good reason or argument to think is true.  All you've got is an incredulous assertion.  That and six bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

If all you've got is your assertion and your incredulity, your opinion on the matter is easily dismissed.  If you think you've justified your opinion, then you are wrong.

Do you think it's true that the assertion "There are no gods" is an assertion of such universal magnitude that there is no way to prove it?

Yes.

Then according to standard usage, you believe it. I get that you don't like the word believe, but your opinions don't dictate the meaning of a word; usage does.

Now, do you have a good justification for thinking that this is true? Your justifications so far have been invalid. Incredulity and ipse dixit arguments only suggest you're a bit unintelligent.

Why should someone who doesn't share your view adopt your view?

[The Grand Nudger]

Excellent why? Can you describe the magnitude or magnitude barrier beyond which knowledge is inaccessible or impossible. Does any other question fit in that space or exist beyond that boundary, and....if so.... what...?

[LadyForCamus]

Yes.

Then according to standard usage, you believe it.  I get that you don't like the word believe, but your opinions don't dictate the meaning of a word; usage does.

Now, do you have a good justification for thinking that this is true?  Your justifications so far have been invalid.  Incredulity and ipse dixit arguments only suggest you're a bit unintelligent.

Why should someone who doesn't share your view adopt your view?

“Ipse dixit.” 

I’ve learned so many new words and terms from you over the years.

[Frank Apisa]

Yes.

Then according to standard usage, you believe it.

No I do not "believe" it. It is my opinion...if you choose, but I suspect most reasonable, intelligent people would agree that it is inherently true. So I know it.

I get that you don't like the word believe, but your opinions don't dictate the meaning of a word; usage does.

If you are telling me that I cannot have opinions or make guesses without calling them "beliefs, I am going to have to tell you to fuck off. Don't do it.

I do have opinions...and I do make guesses...and I do make estimates...

...but I call them opinions, guesses, and estimates.

They are not "beliefs" and you do not get to tell me they are.

Now, do you have a good justification for thinking that this is true?  Your justifications so far have been invalid.  Incredulity and ipse dixit arguments only suggest you're a bit unintelligent.

If, after the conversation we are having you think I am a bit unintelligent...you are a jerkoff. Don't get me wrong, I do not mind talking with jerkoffs. So please do continue to ramble. 

Why should someone who doesn't share your view adopt your view?

What the hell are you talking about?
I am saying that "There are no gods" is a negative assertion of such universal scope that there is no way to verify it. Therefore no humans can KNOW there are no gods.
Jesus H. Christ, Angrboda...call the nearest university to you and ask to speak with a logician from their philosophy department...and present that comment to him/her. The logician will agree with gusto.

I'm sorry you apparently are not mentally equipped to understand all that, but it is so.

---

Excellent why?  Can you describe the magnitude or magnitude barrier beyond which knowledge is inaccessible or impossible.

No, I cannot. But as Justice Potter Stewart said about pornography, "I now it when I see it."

"There are no gods" fits it.



 [/quote]

[quote pid='2046568' dateline='1624896204']
Does any other question fit in that space or exist beyond that boundary, and....if so.... what...?

I'm sure there are many. Think on it yourself...and maybe you can  come up with something. I'm not jumping through hoops for you.
[/quote]

[AniKoferBo]

I no longer have a desire to answer the philosophical secrets in proving the existence of God, because, frankly, they have all failed absolutely, and it is nothing more than a miserable attempt to continue the domination of the nightmare of religion on society.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, if you can’t describe why you hold the position that you do, why you reject the position I hold, or any other example of some similar thing....it’s unclear how you expected to have a conversation about this subject.

You know what you see, so it must amount to a difference between what you and I see....and I wonder, wasn’t that always going to be the explanation for why one person can’t know something that another person can?