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The Right's true opposition to CRT?
#21
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
(August 1, 2021 at 2:18 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: You must be under 40.....


Anyone who grew up.in the sixties knows the score.

MLK made it very clear.

And if those who grew up in the sixties weren’t old enough to start dying off and the under-40s getting old enough to start getting power, that might actually mean something.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#22
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
(August 1, 2021 at 3:30 pm)Mermaid Wrote:
(August 1, 2021 at 2:18 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: You must be under 40.....


Anyone who grew up.in the sixties knows the score.

MLK made it very clear.

I am 58. Do you think systemic racism remains a problem?
What did MLK make very clear? Can you elaborate? The discussion is about teaching kids in school, and teaching them the true nature of such a huge part of our history.

Systemic racism? As in " the white man keeping the black man down"? Um.  No...

SOME white men are absolute fucksticks and treat non-whites as inferior. No question. I believe MOST white men ( people) consider people with a skin color other than their own to be equal - and capable.

So I don't think it' s systemic.

MLK made it clear that people are people. The color of their skin means nothing - but their character can only be seen in their actions and how they treat others.... He threw in a bit too much Jebus woo for me - but that aside I find him to be otherwise fundamentally correct.

The problem as I see it is the blurring of past and present.

Yeah - it sucked donkey dick that people in this country were enslaved.

But - just being of the same skin color as those oppressors does not make anyone alive today guilty or responsible for those crimes.
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#23
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?




And the sad thing is, even 54 years after MLK said these words, there's still a shitton of black people who've been left bootless by the legacy of slavery. And here's a fairly simple primer as to what systemic racism is to explain why this is still the case:





And even if the last explicitly racist person on the planet was dead, if we didn't try and take care of these problems black people still disproportionately face, structural racism will still remain a thing.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#24
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
(August 1, 2021 at 4:58 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:
(August 1, 2021 at 3:30 pm)Mermaid Wrote: I am 58. Do you think systemic racism remains a problem?
What did MLK make very clear? Can you elaborate? The discussion is about teaching kids in school, and teaching them the true nature of such a huge part of our history.

Systemic racism? As in " the white man keeping the black man down"? Um.  No...

SOME white men are absolute fucksticks and treat non-whites as inferior. No question. I believe MOST white men ( people) consider people with a skin color other than their own to be equal - and capable.

So I don't think it' s systemic.

MLK made it clear that people are people. The color of their skin means nothing - but their character can only be seen in their actions and how they treat others.... He threw in a bit too much Jebus woo for me - but that aside I find him to be otherwise fundamentally correct.

The problem as I see it is the blurring of past and present.

Yeah - it sucked donkey dick that people in this country were enslaved.

But - just being of the same skin color as those oppressors does not make anyone alive today guilty or responsible for those crimes.
Yeah, well then it is my opinion that you don't "know the score". At all. Whatsoever.

Listen to black people. Really really listen to them. Believe what they say.
If The Flintstones have taught us anything, it's that pelicans can be used to mix cement.

-Homer Simpson
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#25
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
Anyone who can look at the current raft of voter suppression laws and argue there's no systemic racism has their head pretty far up their ass.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#26
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
(August 1, 2021 at 7:02 pm)Mermaid Wrote:
(August 1, 2021 at 4:58 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: But - just being of the same skin color as those oppressors does not make anyone alive today guilty or responsible for those crimes.

And that's not at all what CRT is about.
If The Flintstones have taught us anything, it's that pelicans can be used to mix cement.

-Homer Simpson
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#27
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
Well, I certainly do not speak all socially conservative folks, I do have my own reasons for explicitly opposing CRT. Not that I am particularly committed to my position…meaning I am open to revising my understanding after hearing alternative perspectives.

The first reason, which is not so much a reason as a visceral reaction to adults ruining the innocence of children. IMHO it the obligation of adults to preserve that innocence through childhood and not selfishly inject adult political concerns about race, class, sexuality so inappropriately early into the minds of the young.

The second is that I feel the same way about CRT as I do about Young Earth Creationism (YEC). Both are intellectual-sounding justifications for a cherished belief systems. CRT proponents are even worse because they invent obfuscating jargon and like Humpty-Dumpty multiply the meanings of words to signify anything they want.

Thirdly, I truly believe that race is an accidental feature of person and not essential to their worth as a human being. As far as I can tell, CRT proponents teach otherwise and I consider such teachings, even if only tacitly promoted, racist and corrosive to a civil society. IMO, the last thing this country needs is more consciousness of race based on pseudo-scientific notions from the 19th century.

2 cents.

(August 1, 2021 at 7:02 pm)Mermaid Wrote: Listen to black people. Really really listen to them. Believe what they say.
That is racist statement. It assumes that all black people must have the same opinions. They do not.
<insert profound quote here>
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#28
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
(August 1, 2021 at 8:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Well, I certainly do not speak all socially conservative folks, I do have my own reasons for explicitly opposing CRT. Not that I am particularly committed to my position…meaning I am open to revising my understanding after hearing alternative perspectives.

The first reason, which is not so much a reason as a visceral reaction to adults ruining the innocence of children. IMHO it the obligation of adults to preserve that innocence through childhood and not selfishly inject adult political concerns about race, class, sexuality so inappropriately early into the minds of the young.

The second is that I feel the same way about CRT as I do about Young Earth Creationism (YEC). Both are intellectual-sounding justifications for a cherished belief systems. CRT proponents are even worse because they invent obfuscating jargon and like Humpty-Dumpty multiply the meanings of words to signify anything they want.

Thirdly, I truly believe that race is an accidental feature of person and not essential to their worth as a human being. As far as I can tell, CRT proponents teach otherwise and I consider such teachings, even if only tacitly promoted, racist and corrosive to a civil society. IMO, the last thing this country needs is more consciousness of race based on pseudo-scientific notions from the 19th century.

2 cents.

1 and 2) How exactly would you describe CRT?
3) This is true and most proponents of CRT will probably acknowledge this. Race is essentially a fiction created in the 17th century to justify the enslavement of people from another continent onto yet another continent. Unfortunately, it's a fiction that society made so important that well over a century after its initial purpose became moot, and even half a century after society seemed to decide that openly judging people on the basis of their skin was a bad thing, people with darker skin STILL have a shitton of baggage that makes life harder for them, more than even the average white person. And there's three ways to approach this fact: A) Denial, which helps nobody, B) Saying that these issues are solely People of Colour's own fault, and C) To acknowledge that these disadvantages are a result of historical oppression that hasn't been properly rectified.

Here's a video that can help explain it:



The bit about black drowning rates is particularly enlightening. You know the stereotype about how black people supposedly can't swim? There's some truth in it, and it's depressing, and not related to anything inherent in people of recent African descent. For a long time, swimming pools were very much "whites-only." If black people got really assertive about wanting to use the pool (particularly in places where segregation wasn't necessarily the law of the land), the owners would close the pool down due to some bullshit malfunction or even drain the damn thing. And while you could argue that this doesn't apply for natural bodies of water, there's still the matter of allowing them access. A public beach may still have found ways to gatekeep. Sure, shit like this no longer flies, and any business who tried that would be rightly roasted to Hell and back, but, well, as Margaret Atwood said: "All it takes... is the elimination of one generation. One generation of anything. Beetles, trees, microbes, scientists, speakers of French, whatever. Break the link in time between one generation and the next, and it’s game over forever.” And, while the original quote was about the destruction of civilization, it's also pretty apt for the ability to swim. You know the odds that a child will learn how to swim if their parent doesn't know? 13%. That's about 1 in 8. And, once you apply it to an entire population, it makes sense that this stereotype would end up prevailing.

(August 1, 2021 at 8:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(August 1, 2021 at 7:02 pm)Mermaid Wrote: Listen to black people. Really really listen to them. Believe what they say.
That is racist statement. It assumes that all black people must have the same opinions. They do not.

True, but once you listen to enough of them, you do start to see patterns emerge. Ones that likely contradict what you were brought up to believe.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#29
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
Systemic racism and crt aren't about every white man being a klansman OLB. That's just what your klansman buddies think it's about.

If our country were a car, that car is and has been built in such a way that it can and will mow down brown people even without a klansman behind the wheel. Unfortunately, we'll never get around to checking under the hood on account of how the mechanics keep getting triggered everytime we describe the problem - blurting out that they're not klansman, like common klansmen.

Neo, no one is teaching crt to children. Its not a thing.

Quote:We have successfully frozen their brand—"critical race theory"—into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category. The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think "critical race theory." We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans.
-Christopher Rufo

Mission Accomplished.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#30
RE: The Right's true opposition to CRT?
(August 1, 2021 at 8:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Well, I certainly do not speak all socially conservative folks, I do have my own reasons for explicitly opposing CRT. Not that I am particularly committed to my position…meaning I am open to revising my understanding after hearing alternative perspectives.

The first reason, which is not so much a reason as a visceral reaction to adults ruining the innocence of children. IMHO it the obligation of adults to preserve that innocence through childhood and not selfishly inject adult political concerns about race, class, sexuality so inappropriately early into the minds of the young.

The second is that I feel the same way about CRT as I do about Young Earth Creationism (YEC). Both are intellectual-sounding justifications for a cherished belief systems. CRT proponents are even worse because they invent obfuscating jargon and like Humpty-Dumpty multiply the meanings of words to signify anything they want.

Thirdly, I truly believe that race is an accidental feature of person and not essential to their worth as a human being. As far as I can tell, CRT proponents teach otherwise and I consider such teachings, even if only tacitly promoted, racist and corrosive to a civil society. IMO, the last thing this country needs is more consciousness of race based on pseudo-scientific notions from the 19th century.

I believe that 3 of these comments were excellently addressed by rev rye.  I would like to focus on the last.  So, I wonder if you are saying that you don't like the idea of real and truthful historical events being taught to children (and we'll assume it is of an appropriate age).  For example; were you aware that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, black inventors were significantly less likely to be awarded patents and were more likely to have their inventions stolen by white people?  This is a publicly documented fact now although I didn't hear of it until just a few years ago.  Do you believe this practice of oppressing black inventors has no repercussions to people living today?  Is it your opinion that this kind of history is too divisive for children to learn about?  Now consider that this is but one of hundreds of different forms of oppression that blacks faced as they were trying to integrate into a society that they did not choose for themselves.  And lastly, let me ask you, as a Christian, did you learn of the oppression that early Christians faced as your religion struggled to gain acceptance in the classical world?  Have you been told stories of Christian persecution in countries like Russia or China?  Do you consider those just as divisive to modern society and based on pseudo-scientific, medieval notions?

Quote:
(August 1, 2021 at 7:02 pm)Mermaid Wrote: Listen to black people. Really really listen to them. Believe what they say.
That is racist statement. It assumes that all black people must have the same opinions. They do not.

That was a pretty obfuscating comment, Neo.  The point was that when a fellow American says they are experiencing oppression (of any kind), perhaps others should listen and determine what is going on instead of automatically dismissing their concerns.  Your comment was a biased response; it side stepped any real evaluation of the question.  Any honest consideration of the question reveals that it is clearly a valid one.  Let's put this question in a different context.  Christians are often quoted claiming that they feel oppressed and/or persecuted in the United States.  If I said, we should listen to Christians and believe what they say, would you respond by saying that's a biased statement and it assumes all Christians have the same opinions?

(August 1, 2021 at 11:51 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Systemic racism and crt aren't about every white man being a klansman OLB.  That's just what your klansman buddies think it's about.  

If our country were a car, that car is and has been built in such a way that it can and will mow down brown people even without a klansman behind the wheel.  Unfortunately, we'll never get around to checking under the hood on account of how the mechanics keep getting triggered everytime we describe the problem - blurting out that they're not klansman, like common klansmen.

I give this comment a Gold Medal for its originality and imagination while preserving absolute accuracy of the issue!

I believe I will quote this every time I hear someone bitch about CRT from now on.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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