Alec Baldwin Shooting

[The Architect Of Fate]

Guns are not complicated and safety is not optional. If you use a gun, you own the consequences. No excuses.

It's not an excuse. The props guy is paid to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen regardless of who is using the prop.

[Spongebob]

I also don't totally agree that guns are not complicated. It depends on the gun you're talking about and the experience level of the person holding it. My wife has never fired a gun in her life and wouldn't know which end to hold. I basically forced my two daughters to go shooting with me but they are still novices. But what if the script called for a military style weapon? That's way more complicated than a handgun. And in some cases even in a handgun jams can happen that only someone familiar with the weapon would understand. What about early firearms like flintlock and matchlock muskets? There more I think about this the more it becomes evident that the actors should have a clause in their contract if something should go awry.

[HappySkeptic]

One note I see people on forums confusing. Blanks contain powder, and discharge. There are rules around pulling the trigger and using blanks on a set, such as being 20 feet from anyone else, unless a protective screen is in place.

When "cold gun" was declared on the Rust set, that means that there was no powder in the gun, and no capability of discharge. There were 4 prop bullets in the gun - ones that look like bullets but have no powder. They can be distinguished by holes in the side of the casing. One armorer showed that they can instead have a BB inside that rattles, if the prop bullet must appear real for a close-up loading shot.

Unfortunately, there was one real bullet in the gun (probably left by yahoos on set using it for target practice).

Blank with powder is not a cold gun.

An armorer on CNN said that the procedure he uses is to declare a cold gun, and also ask if anyone requires him to validate that it is a cold gun (anyone, either cast or actors). If no-one asks, he hands it to the actor, and it is considered a cold gun.

I see a lot of Baldwin haters on the right want Baldwin to get the death penalty for this, but I bet if they accidentally shoot someone out hunting, they will talk about "ma rahts" and "that's just a risk of being in the bush".

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Guns are not complicated and safety is not optional. If you use a gun, you own the consequences. No excuses.

It's not an excuse. The props guy is paid to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen regardless of who is using the prop.

Sorry, but I agree with Biker on this occasion.   The final person handling a real gun is responsible. Such a real, potentially deadly weapon should not be allowed  for films or other forms of entertainment imo. The end user may not abrogate responsibility to another person.

That's my opinion.  Some, many, most may disagree. That's fine with me because I don't live in the US and really don't care a whole lot. Be interesting what the local DA says.

[Spongebob]

Yeah, I didn't hear anyone chanting to lock up Dick Cheney.

[Pat Mustard]

Baldwin will likely be sued, and will have to pay a ton of money.  He is absolutely civilly liable for the clusterfuck that was this production, as well as taking some percent of the blame for actually firing the shot.

For criminal liability, there is no way Baldwin should be charged, despite bikers claim that the person pulling the trigger is ALWAYS the one criminally responsible.  That is absolutely not so.  If the standards of action are that Baldwin does not have to check the gun himself, then that is the standard.  If the standard of action is that the armorer and the AD DID have the obligation to check the guns, and they didn't, then they are at criminal risk of negligent homicide.

Plus - who the F allowed yahoos to use the prop gun to shoot real bullets at the site, and then presumably leave them in the guns?  Whoever allowed this should be fired and civilly charged as well, and if the yahoos knew it wasn't allowed, then they should be partly civilly liable.  If someone deliberately left bullets in the gun, then they are murderers (but that is impossible to prove).

As I said, Baldwin is going to have to pay a shit ton of money for this.

To be held liable, Baldwin will have to be found culpable. Given what we know of the events, that's not even close to being established.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Sorry, but I agree with Biker on this occasion.   The final person handling a real gun is responsible. Such a real, potentially deadly weapon should not be allowed  for films or other forms of entertainment imo. The end user may not abrogate responsibility to another person.

That's my opinion.  Some, many, most may disagree. That's fine with me because I don't live in the US and really don't care a whole lot. Be interesting what the local DA says.

I repeat it's the job of the props people to make sure any firearm used in a film isn't armed which is why check the gun first place. The props people screwed up. The actor has no obligation to check the weapon that's not their job and it's totally reasonable for the actor to trust the weapon is safe on the prop persons say so.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yeah, I didn't hear anyone chanting to lock up Dick Cheney.

There’s a bit of nostalgia. I haven’t thought about DickCheneyShotAGuyInTheFaceGate for ages.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

..then that guy (who was a lawyer) apologized for all of the pain and trauma dicks family went through on account of shooting him in the face...and yet...today..people are openly daring that mans daughter to fuck them all the way up in her pursuit of power.

It boggles the mind.

[Spongebob]

Baldwin will likely be sued, and will have to pay a ton of money.  He is absolutely civilly liable for the clusterfuck that was this production, as well as taking some percent of the blame for actually firing the shot.

Plus - who the F allowed yahoos to use the prop gun to shoot real bullets at the site, and then presumably leave them in the guns?  Whoever allowed this should be fired and civilly charged as well, and if the yahoos knew it wasn't allowed, then they should be partly civilly liable.  If someone deliberately left bullets in the gun, then they are murderers (but that is impossible to prove).

As I said, Baldwin is going to have to pay a shit ton of money for this.

I agree, Baldwin will likely pay a ton of money, but if the reports of his reaction are true, I doubt that will bother him as much as the incident.  Anyone who has an actual conscience would be devastated.

On the Yahoo question, I read that it is not uncommon for people involved with the production of a film to use the same guns to shoot at cans and junk with real ammo during downtime.  Movie production can involve long spans of boredom so I'm not surprised they do this.  But it's probably not a good practice.

I work in manufacturing and of course its a long way from movie production, but safety is taken very seriously most of the time.  If something remotely similar were to happen on a project, there would be a line of people getting canned.  And yes, there are occasions where firearms and other very dangerous equipment are used in construction & manufacturing.