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The Wheel of Time (tv series)
#11
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
I may have to give it a try. I tend to like anything set in medieval times.

Now that I think about it...I was invested in Game of Thrones and have watched all the Harry Potter movies...I'll have a look.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#12
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
(November 5, 2021 at 9:41 am)Ten Wrote: Everything is derivative. WoT isn't like the most epic series ever but I enjoyed it greatly and would recommend it and I'm excited to watch a series based on it.

I personally think that those who can't see past Tolkien are living off of his crumbs, as it were. Then again, I've never read a single word of his and I've read a ton of fantasy books. It's not the first time I've heard that criticism about fantasy as a genre. Maybe there's just something awful about Tolkien that ruins you for other authors. Or maybe those who choose to read him and feel complete enough to stop there just don't have a nuance for story execution and variation. They see orcs and addictive magic tropes and automatically think, "I'VE READ THIS ONE ALREADY!!!"

*Not directed at solely Spongebob but the critics who parrot that elitist opinion.

Understand that I've read tons of fantasy works and after a point it seems like I'm reading the same story over and over again.  I agree that most authors derive something from others, but for some reason the fantasy genre seems to be the most cut and paste, maybe with the exception of mystery, which I don't read much.  I've also read tons of SF and it, too is largely derivative, but for some reason it still offers a much wider realm of variation.  At times it has appeared that writing fantasy has been more of a willingness to participate in a specific club where writing SF is more like charting new territory.  I can easily find two SF authors that have near zero similarity in their work, but doing that with fantasy is pretty difficult.  One author whom I feel did chart new fantasy territory was Michael Moorecock.

*Note:  This opinion, whether it's mine or someone else's doesn't necessarily make it elitist.  Why use such a pejorative adjective?
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#13
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know this was coming and my SO has Prime (though she hates fantasy) so I'll be able to watch it when she's asleep. :-)
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#14
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
Thanks for the clarification. I have no problem with you preferring SF or feeling like fantasy is too same-y to hold your interest. That's not what you originally said, though.

(November 5, 2021 at 9:22 am)Spongebob Wrote: I can understand why people like books/movies like this, but they are all so derivative of Tolkien that I just can't enjoy them.  When I was in my teens I devoured fantasy books, but eventually realized that none of them stood up to Tolkien and every one of them were living off of his crumbs, so I shifted away from reading fantasy.

Bolding mine.

Do you have so little self-awareness that you can't see how condescending these statements are? Or are you blinded by your bias in thinking Tolkien is the best thing fantasy ever put out and it should be obvious to everyone else?

Whatever. Don't want to fight with ya, Sponge. Your clarification makes sense to me and I even agree that some of it can feel repetitive. I'm a "it's the execution not the tropes" type of person. It's totally fine if you're not. But it's disingenuous to say "nobody else measures up to Tolkien and they're all just copying his work over and over" and act like you can't find where you've been elitist.

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#15
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
(November 5, 2021 at 11:44 am)Ten Wrote: Thanks for the clarification. I have no problem with you preferring SF or feeling like fantasy is too same-y to hold your interest. That's not what you originally said, though.

(November 5, 2021 at 9:22 am)Spongebob Wrote: I can understand why people like books/movies like this, but they are all so derivative of Tolkien that I just can't enjoy them.  When I was in my teens I devoured fantasy books, but eventually realized that none of them stood up to Tolkien and every one of them were living off of his crumbs, so I shifted away from reading fantasy.

Bolding mine.

Do you have so little self-awareness that you can't see how condescending these statements are? Or are you blinded by your bias in thinking Tolkien is the best thing fantasy ever put out and it should be obvious to everyone else?

Whatever. Don't want to fight with ya, Sponge. Your clarification makes sense to me and I even agree that some of it can feel repetitive. I'm a "it's the execution not the tropes" type of person. It's totally fine if you're not. But it's disingenuous to say "nobody else measures up to Tolkien and they're all just copying his work over and over" and act like you can't find where you've been elitist.

Wow, quite sensitive about this stuff, aren't you.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#16
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
(November 5, 2021 at 11:02 am)Spongebob Wrote: Understand that I've read tons of fantasy works and after a point it seems like I'm reading the same story over and over again.  I agree that most authors derive something from others, but for some reason the fantasy genre seems to be the most cut and paste, maybe with the exception of mystery, which I don't read much.  I've also read tons of SF and it, too is largely derivative, but for some reason it still offers a much wider realm of variation.  At times it has appeared that writing fantasy has been more of a willingness to participate in a specific club where writing SF is more like charting new territory.  I can easily find two SF authors that have near zero similarity in their work, but doing that with fantasy is pretty difficult.  One author whom I feel did chart new fantasy territory was Michael Moorecock.

*Note:  This opinion, whether it's mine or someone else's doesn't necessarily make it elitist.  Why use such a pejorative adjective?

Lol. Yeah, I'm the sensitive one.

I'm passionate about the stuff I like and I've heard the Tolkien dick sucking before.

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#17
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
(November 5, 2021 at 2:53 am)Foxaire Wrote: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/

Who will be watching?

I only ever read parts, or the entire thing (cannot remember), of the first book.

Thanks for that. I've noted it on my calendar  and white board. Great
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#18
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
(November 5, 2021 at 12:32 pm)Ten Wrote:
(November 5, 2021 at 11:02 am)Spongebob Wrote: Understand that I've read tons of fantasy works and after a point it seems like I'm reading the same story over and over again.  I agree that most authors derive something from others, but for some reason the fantasy genre seems to be the most cut and paste, maybe with the exception of mystery, which I don't read much.  I've also read tons of SF and it, too is largely derivative, but for some reason it still offers a much wider realm of variation.  At times it has appeared that writing fantasy has been more of a willingness to participate in a specific club where writing SF is more like charting new territory.  I can easily find two SF authors that have near zero similarity in their work, but doing that with fantasy is pretty difficult.  One author whom I feel did chart new fantasy territory was Michael Moorecock.

*Note:  This opinion, whether it's mine or someone else's doesn't necessarily make it elitist.  Why use such a pejorative adjective?

Lol. Yeah, I'm the sensitive one.

I'm passionate about the stuff I like and I've heard the Tolkien dick sucking before.

My opinion has nothing to do with Tolkien dick sucking and it certainly isn't elitist.  Everyone has preferences and I merely shared mine with you and you reacted as if it was a personal insult, which is bizarre because you don't have any personal investment in other author's work, or at least there's no reason for you to.  If anything authors like Jordan (well, he's dead) and Brooks should take it personally since its their work I'm comparing to Tolkien's.  If you like to read every single Xanth book and loved them all, that's fine by me but I see no reason not to speak frankly about how I feel about his work.  But I imagine that even those authors would acknowledge the vast contribution Tolkien made to literature and wouldn't be nearly as offended as you are.  So just chill a bit and accept that not everyone shares your opinion.  I don't much care if you were to claim that Game of Thrones was the greatest fantasy series ever; that's your opinion and I can agree with it or laugh at you if I like.  And if fact there are those who claim that such and such art or music or whatever is the greatest and I don't always agree with them, but it sure isn't because I think they are "elitist"; whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.  That really just seems to be some sort of emotional reaction to other's that has more to do with you.

@Ten BTW, I was going to send you this in a PM, but you appear to have it disabled.

And in case you still don't fully comprehend. If you absolutely insisted that this WOT was the greatest, I might just give it a try. I read a book recommended by my hair dresser. Didn't care for it but I did give it a go. It's not like I have some sort of absolute rule or anything. Thing is, I already have about a hundred books queued up and fitting in a new one just makes others that I'm dying to read get that much farther away.
Why is it so?
~Julius Sumner Miller
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#19
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
(November 5, 2021 at 2:53 am)Foxaire Wrote: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7462410/

Who will be watching?

I only ever read parts, or the entire thing (cannot remember), of the first book.

I've watched all 3 of the first released episodes finally (I've been savoring it, since it seems they'll be releasing new eps weekly?).

From what I remember from reading the books, this is a pretty faithful adaptation. Rosamund Pike is perfect as Morraine and I like the casting for everyone else. It fits and I definitely feel drawn to the stories of the characters.

Occasionally, the costuming and sfx are a little lacking. Like, they feel a little too crisp, a little too "on set". I get it, the White Cloaks wear white but a little bit of weathered or slightly muddy isn't going to ruin the illusion that these guys are soldiers and hunters with a rigid philosophy. It might be more realistic if the white wasn't a literal bleached white that looks out of place in a land where baths and laundromats are in rare supply. Like, if they interpreted it in some other creative way where you're like, "Ah, yes, the White Cloaks" but it was filtered through a "these people really exist and live in this medieval based land" lens, you know? I can't think of how exactly it would be but I know bleached white, pristine cloaks in the middle of muddy scrub land and riding horses for long hours looked phony and cheap in practice. And sometimes that blue cloak Morraine wears, looks like she's laying around in a blue bathrobe. I feel like they could have put more effort into making the costuming feel less juvenile when the concept is "color coded warrior witches".

I also cannot tell objectively how well the storytelling and worldbuilding is. I read the books at least twice and I watch it with anticipation of certain things I remember and experience pleasure when other parts I remember happen on screen. But for someone who's never read the books, I don't know how well the concepts are coming across. So, I've got a bit of nostalgic blinders on that prevent me from assessing it objectively.

Other than that, I am enjoying it very much. I am excited for more episodes and I feel like the pace and character development is going very well.

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#20
RE: The Wheel of Time (tv series)
I really enjoyed the first 3 episodes so far.

I read the first 9 books of the series. The first one was amazing (but aren't origin stories sometimes the best parts?).

Then each book was worse than the last, to the point of literally nothing happening in an entire book. I gave up in disgust, as did many others I know (most didn't get past book 6 or 7). I didn't read any of the posthumous books that finished the series.

I just hope they find a way to keep the pacing once they get past the first book (if the series doesn't get cancelled).
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