Russia and Ukraine

[Thumpalumpacus]

Russia has been historically worried about its borders in Europe. To be fair, they were invaded twice themselves in the last 110 years, more or less. That's why they screwed the Poles at Yalta and the rest of Eastern Europe shortly thereafter, and held dominion for decades.

That still doesn't make NATO decisions responsible for Putin's invasion. It's not like NATO invaded Poland or the Baltics in order to threaten Russia; those countries joined NATO voluntarily in order to seek protection from Russia. They knew what happens under Russian occupation. Other countries, in the Caucasus where that wasn't an option, fell to Putin's ambitions as well.

Ukraine wanted protection in the form of NATO, but it was not forthcoming before the 2014 invasion.

Blaming the Ukrainians for wanting protection against a predatory neighbor doesn't seem justified at all.

[The Grand Nudger]

Maybe she shouldn't have been wearing that skirt.

[Deesse23]

Russia was maybe invaded twice in the past 100y, but how many times did Russia invade it's neighbors? Give me a call when you are finished counting.
Hint: the result is >20

Russian interests? How about Ukrainian interests? Russian interests? How about lithuanian interests? Russian interests? How about Finnish interests?

Belaqua quotes a former head of cia? Is it the same belaqua who said to never trust cia?

This shit is so transparent, it offends my intellect that Russian actors like belaqua seen to believe I am ever going to fall for this bullshit. It's so offensive , I'd rather have respect for him if he ever dropped the pretense.... Which he never will do, because he is a coward.

[Thumpalumpacus]

It offends my sensibilities that anyone would defend the naked aggression and support the concept of "might makes right".

If you support bombing and torturing civilians, then right, fuck off. I'll spare my sympathies for your victims, and reserve my rocksalt for you.

[Belacqua]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-alxZvUCS8

[The Grand Nudger]

The American Committee for East–West Accord is the name of two related organizations that have existed during separate periods of American history whose goals have been to promote, in the United States, conciliation with the Soviet Union and, later, the Russian Federation.

The Peter G. Peterson Foundation is an American foundation established in 2008 by Peter G. Peterson, former US secretary of commerce in the Nixon Administration and co-founder of the Blackstone Group, an American financial-services company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_C...est_Accord
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peter_...Foundation

[Ivan Denisovich]

Russia has been historically worried about its borders in Europe. To be fair, they were invaded twice themselves in the last 110 years, more or less. That's why they screwed the Poles at Yalta and the rest of Eastern Europe shortly thereafter, and held dominion for decades.

That still doesn't make NATO decisions responsible for Putin's invasion. It's not like NATO invaded Poland or the Baltics in order to threaten Russia; those countries joined NATO voluntarily in order to seek protection from Russia. They knew what happens under Russian occupation. Other countries, in the Caucasus where that wasn't an option, fell to Putin's ambitions as well.

Ukraine wanted protection in the form of NATO, but it was not forthcoming before the 2014 invasion.

Blaming the Ukrainians for wanting protection against a predatory neighbor doesn't seem justified at all.

I thought about bringing history of tsarist russia and ussr but modern russia was aggressive enough to made my point with it attacking (among others) Chechnya, Georgia and of course Ukraine. russia been worried about it's borders because history of russia consist mostly of wars. To me at least it is understandable that aggressor measures everyone else by its own morals or rather lack of them and thus become paranoid.

To me it's absurd that anyone would use this argument of NATO threatening "poor, oppressed" russia. Nudger I think made right connection between russia apologists and rape apologists when he wrote

Maybe she shouldn't have been wearing that skirt.

[Belacqua]

Russia has been historically worried about its borders in Europe. To be fair, they were invaded twice themselves in the last 110 years, more or less. That's why they screwed the Poles at Yalta and the rest of Eastern Europe shortly thereafter, and held dominion for decades.

That still doesn't make NATO decisions responsible for Putin's invasion. It's not like NATO invaded Poland or the Baltics in order to threaten Russia; those countries joined NATO voluntarily in order to seek protection from Russia. They knew what happens under Russian occupation. Other countries, in the Caucasus where that wasn't an option, fell to Putin's ambitions as well.

Ukraine wanted protection in the form of NATO, but it was not forthcoming before the 2014 invasion.

Blaming the Ukrainians for wanting protection against a predatory neighbor doesn't seem justified at all.

I thought about bringing history of tsarist russia and ussr but modern russia was aggressive enough to made my point with it attacking (among others) Chechnya, Georgia and of course Ukraine. russia been worried about it's borders because history of russia consist mostly of wars. To me at least it is understandable that aggressor measures everyone else by its own morals or rather lack of them and thus become paranoid.

To me it's absurd that anyone would use this argument of NATO threatening "poor, oppressed" russia. Nudger I think made right connection between russia apologists and rape apologists when he wrote

Maybe she shouldn't have been wearing that skirt.

Because a woman wearing a skirt is very similar to an aggressive military alliance led by a country which makes no secret of the fact that it wants to break your country up into smaller units and control your natural resources.

[Belacqua]

You may be disappointed to hear that the Ukrainian International Legionnaires Unit has been "effectively dismantled." Too many of them got killed. The survivors have been reassigned to regular units.

If you are not yet 60, and you believe that people should be dying to protect Western civilization in the Donbas, there is no reason not to join up.

[Ivan Denisovich]

I thought about bringing history of tsarist russia and ussr but modern russia was aggressive enough to made my point with it attacking (among others) Chechnya, Georgia and of course Ukraine. russia been worried about it's borders because history of russia consist mostly of wars. To me at least it is understandable that aggressor measures everyone else by its own morals or rather lack of them and thus become paranoid.

To me it's absurd that anyone would use this argument of NATO threatening "poor, oppressed" russia. Nudger I think made right connection between russia apologists and rape apologists when he wrote

Because a woman wearing a skirt is very similar to an aggressive military alliance led by a country which makes no secret of the fact that it wants to break your country up into smaller units and control your natural resources.

Any more news taken straight from Правда? Maybe something about poor, always peaceful russia protecting itself from beastly "ukro-nazis"? Or quote from some cunt who is too stupid to realize that putler imperial ambitions are not a valid reason for war?

Analogy is apt - both women and Ukraine are innocent victims in it. It's just the rape and russia apologists who can't grasp it and look for every available excuse.