Russia and Ukraine

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I think Putins whining because his super fun murder party didn't go well.  He'll rattle the final saber no matter what.

And what do you think about the no fly zone... do you think there should there be one? Before, I would have said no... for fear of it provoking WW3... but I'm not so sure now, thinking perhaps the ship has already essentially sailed on that, like I said in my previous post, because he seems determined to bring it about... so maybe it's time to start thinking about getting out in front of that?

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We’re seriously considering jumping on the book-an-AirBnB-in-Ukraine-and-never-show-up train. Still looking into it.

Boru

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here... could you rephrase?

There's been a trend of people around the world making bookings at Ukrainian AirBnBs, paying full price, and never going. It's a way to get money into the hands of Ukrainians who desperately need it.

The no-fly zone is not a bad idea, exactly, but more or less a useless one. Russia is using surprisingly little air power in Ukraine (although that may change if the war continues to not go Putin's way). Russian military thinking is heavily geared towards armour and artillery.  Putin's threats regarding a no-fly zone probably aren't serious. Short of nukes (which he's absolutely NOT going to use) he doesn't have the resources to punish any countries that participate in a no-fly zone. This is why, for all his posturing about the sanctions being an 'act of war', he hasn't done anything about it.

Boru

[emjay]

And what do you think about the no fly zone... do you think there should there be one? Before, I would have said no... for fear of it provoking WW3... but I'm not so sure now, thinking perhaps the ship has already essentially sailed on that, like I said in my previous post, because he seems determined to bring it about... so maybe it's time to start thinking about getting out in front of that?

Putin is probably going to call this another "aggression" towards him/Russia. As we can see, he has started a war of aggression, invaded a country, and even before he started this war he is looking to put the blame on others: Drug addicts / Nazis, NATO, Ukrainians in general, whatever. He will throw around accusations until something (may) sticks, as he is already doing.
Thus i would not recommend calling out a no-fly zone. He 100% will try to exploit it.

As far as WWIII goes: I grew up and lived during (most of) the cold war: Only a literally crazy person would start a nuclear war, since it certainly means end of civilisation as we know, at least on the European continent. As much as Putin is reckless and dangerous, i dont think he is willing to rule over a nuclear wasteland called Ukraine or whatever. That being said, i have no illusions, that he would not hesitate a nanosecond to wage all out conventional war.

Tl;dr
One one hand he needs to be stopped, on the other hand, he will be looking for anything to justify himself and maybe gather allies around him under that pretense. This is like wabbit hunting!

That's another thing, just not knowing how truly unhinged/crazy this guy is... ie how much he believes his own propaganda/rhetoric. And basically that being the case, combined with massive paranoia, as has always seemed to be the case with Russia, makes me think there is potentially a real risk here. Especially since paranoia and/or delusions often have a self fulfilling prophecy aspect about them, and this situation seems a prime example of that... like you said, how he's justifying this to himself, blaming others for what he himself is doing, in what seems a very dangerous feedback loop.

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And what do you think about the no fly zone... do you think there should there be one? Before, I would have said no... for fear of it provoking WW3... but I'm not so sure now, thinking perhaps the ship has already essentially sailed on that, like I said in my previous post, because he seems determined to bring it about... so maybe it's time to start thinking about getting out in front of that?

---

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here... could you rephrase?

There's been a trend of people around the world making bookings at Ukrainian AirBnBs, paying full price, and never going. It's a way to get money into the hands of Ukrainians who desperately need it.

The no-fly zone is not a bad idea, exactly, but more or less a useless one. Russia is using surprisingly little air power in Ukraine (although that may change if the war continues to not go Putin's way). Russian military thinking is heavily geared towards armour and artillery.  Putin's threats regarding a no-fly zone probably aren't serious. Short of nukes (which he's absolutely NOT going to use) he doesn't have the resources to punish any countries that participate in a no-fly zone. This is why, for all his posturing about the sanctions being an 'act of war', he hasn't done anything about it.

Boru

Thanks, I had no idea, so glad I asked.

And yeah, good points... reassuring. I agree if it's just conventional war he's threatening then it's maybe all talk, and beyond his resources/capabilities, but I still fear the possibility that he could take this nuclear, just dependent on how unhinged he really is, which we can't really know.

[Anomalocaris]

No doubt everything outside the ass into which you’ve stuck your head appears disgusting to you.

What an unimaginative personal insult. Is there anything you dont suck at? Certainly not  apologizing tyrants invading sovereign states. You dont even know abut Ukrainian language or ethnicity, as evidenced by your uninformed ramblings a few pages back.

You dont care about international law, while enjoying the safety of your internet warrior PC desk provided by exactly this law. You pontificate about Russias "necessity" of invading foreign countries, but you are too much of a coward to go to Ukraine and tell the Ukrainians about it. I bet you are too much of a coward to even go to any random ukrainian refugee somewhere across Europe in a camp and tell them about russian "necessities", because they would own you in the process from what we have seen on TV. Who decides about Russias "necessities" anyway? You?
You proudly proclaim that "few have to suffer for the good of many", as long as its others who have to suffer, and not you and yours, right? You are weak, a pathetic coward, enjoying the anonymity of his keyboard. Your moral compass is so skewed, it points directly at Putin.

And no doubt you are charging valorously with your mighty pitch fork directly at where the Russian bullets whizzing by your ears is coming from?

[The Architect Of Fate]

And no doubt you are charging bravely with your mighty pitch fork directly at where the Russian bullets whizzing by your head is coming from?

He's not the one trying and failing to justify an invasion

[Anomalocaris]

Again, War is a continuation of politics by other means.   Push a state with means to wage violence to the point where existential concern can’t be address by politics short of war, politics will continue under the guise of war.

As to safety of key board,  keep in mind every one in the US and parts of Europe face a much, much higher chance of dying, and much much more lamentable prospect of sustained privation if they fail to die in the opening moments, than even those on the front line of the conflict now, if a nuclear exchange between Russia and the US eventuates from what each side is doing now.

It would be a shame if a 300 million people, $23 trillion economy, and much of a 350 million people, $18 trillion economy, were to go down the tubes because they think it was and is good to try to push 150 million people, 3 trillion economy beyond its existential safety boundary.  

And you think pushing a major nuclear power’s buttons while he faces use it or lose it choice with these weapons was right then or courageous now.   And you call him madman.

[pocaracas]

Again, War is a continuation of politics by other means.   Push a state with means to wage violence to the point where existential concern can’t be address by politics short of war, politics will continue under the guise of war.

I must have not paid enough attention... What did Ukraine do to push Russia into invading it?

[Disagreeable]

We ought to do whatever we can to prevent a third world war. With no exceptions.

And by 'we' I mean us humans on the side of Goodness who can also do anything about it

Personally, I stay out of politics.

Impersonally, I'm very against WW3. Personally, I can't do anything to prevent it. Unfortunately.

[Anomalocaris]

Again, War is a continuation of politics by other means.   Push a state with means to wage violence to the point where existential concern can’t be address by politics short of war, politics will continue under the guise of war.

I must have not paid enough attention... What did Ukraine do to push Russia into invading it?

The US pushed Russia into invading Ukraine by making it clear Ukraine joining the nato can mean american medium and intermediate rate nuclear weapons can be deployed to Ukraine, which largely nullifies Russia’s nuclear deterrence by allow a strike to hit Moscow and Russian nuclear sites with less than 4-5 minutes of warning.

[The Architect Of Fate]

The US pushed Russia into invading Ukraine by making it clear Ukraine joining the nato can mean american medium and intermediate rate nuclear weapons can be deployed to Ukraine, which largely nullifies Russia’s nuclear deterrence by allow a strike to hit Moscow and Russian nuclear sites with less than 4-5 minutes of warning.

Nobody pushed Russia into anything. They're throwing a hissy fit because they don't get to decide what the rest of Eastern Europe is allowed to do.

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Again, War is a continuation of politics by other means.   Push a state with means to wage violence to the point where existential concern can’t be address by politics short of war, politics will continue under the guise of war.

As to safety of key board,  keep in mind every one in the US and parts of Europe face a much, much higher chance of dying, and much much more lamentable prospect of sustained privation if they fail to die in the opening moments, than even those on the front line of the conflict now, if a nuclear exchange between Russia and the US eventuates from what each side is doing now.

It would be a shame if a 300 million people, $23 trillion economy, and much of a 350 million people, $18 trillion economy, were to go down the tubes because it they think it was and is good to try to push 150 million people, 3 trillion economy beyond its existential safety boundary.  

And you think pushing a major nuclear power’s buttons while he faces use it or lose it choice with these weapons was right then or courageous now.   And you call him madman.

No one pushed Putin's buttons he's an insecure man-baby throwing his toys out of his pram because he doesn't get to tell other countries what they can and cannot do.

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Again, War is a continuation of politics by other means.   Push a state with means to wage violence to the point where existential concern can’t be address by politics short of war, politics will continue under the guise of war.

I must have not paid enough attention... What did Ukraine do to push Russia into invading it?

Acting like a sovereign state that gets to choose it's allies apparently and not bowing before Emperor Putin 

[Deesse23]

What an unimaginative personal insult. Is there anything you dont suck at? Certainly not  apologizing tyrants invading sovereign states. You dont even know abut Ukrainian language or ethnicity, as evidenced by your uninformed ramblings a few pages back.

You dont care about international law, while enjoying the safety of your internet warrior PC desk provided by exactly this law. You pontificate about Russias "necessity" of invading foreign countries, but you are too much of a coward to go to Ukraine and tell the Ukrainians about it. I bet you are too much of a coward to even go to any random ukrainian refugee somewhere across Europe in a camp and tell them about russian "necessities", because they would own you in the process from what we have seen on TV. Who decides about Russias "necessities" anyway? You?
You proudly proclaim that "few have to suffer for the good of many", as long as its others who have to suffer, and not you and yours, right? You are weak, a pathetic coward, enjoying the anonymity of his keyboard. Your moral compass is so skewed, it points directly at Putin.

And no doubt you are charging valorously with your mighty pitch fork directly at where the Russian bullets whizzing by your ears is coming from?

Oh, what a weak sauce.
Did i hurt your feelings by pointing out your cowardice and lack of morals?

I am merely calling an interenet wannabe out, someone pontificating about how others have to endure suffering, because....you are saying so.
You are proudly proclaiming that Ukrainians deserve to be invaded and oppressed for the crime of trying to exercise their free will as a free people. Go to Ukraine, go to any forum with Ukrainians and tell them about your findings, tough guy.