Russia and Ukraine

[Thumpalumpacus]

We can add grammar to the list behind foreign affairs, clearly.

again, fuck off.  preferably by inserting large cacti into every orafice on your face and body in addition to your pie hole.

lol, still no answer to the points I've drawn. The tougher you sound, the weaker you look.

By the way, it's "orifice", Einstein.

[Anomalocaris]

Points?   you are capable of “points”?   With what do you imagine you drew your “points” exactly?

contradicting without explanation in your customary smarmy obtuse way, and then imagining like some halfwit that you improved it somehow with some paltry cheap shots?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Point?   you are capable of “point”?   

other contradicting without explanation in your customary smarmy way, and then you improve it by some paltry cheap shot?

... and you deign to criticize my reading?

Here, I'll help you out: https://atheistforums.org/thread-63759-p...pid2103375

Particularly in the last 3 paragraphs you might (or might not, apparently) see what I'm getting at.

Also, gotta laugh at the "go fuck yourself" guy for complaining about "cheap shots". If you want a better conversation, do your part. So long as you're content with cussin' at me, you have no call on my respect or consideration.

[highdimensionman]

What use is the Putin regime all they've done is kill off all men who even slightly challenged them sell women and girls on the black market and get rich pushing a fossil fuel agenda over common sense. This regime can blame America all they want because it's the only way they sound needed to their people you know nothing like an enemy to excuse abuse of your own citizens and neighbours. I can tell you now there's plenty you can point the finger at the american's about but a shit bag of a regime is still a shit bag of a regime regardless of the fact that there are some shit bags in america also.

[highdimensionman]

Point?   you are capable of “point”?   

other contradicting without explanation in your customary smarmy way, and then you improve it by some paltry cheap shot?

... and you deign to criticize my reading?

Here, I'll help you out: https://atheistforums.org/thread-63759-p...pid2103375

Particularly in the last 3 paragraphs you might (or might not, apparently) see what I'm getting at.

Also, gotta laugh at the "go fuck yourself" guy for complaining about "cheap shots". If you want a better conversation, do your part. So long as you're content with cussin' at me, you have no call on my respect or consideration. 

I see the issue as quite Simple Russia failed to respect the full sovereignty of neighbouring nations as a result of this distrust of Russia NATO have progressed. If Russia had respected sovereignty more they may have found it easier to broker neutrality.

Therefore It's not NATO's fault they just capitalised on the Russian regimes inability to show respect.

[Angrboda]

TIL. The pie hole isn't considered a facial orifice for cactii stuffing purposes.

[Anomalocaris]

Stuffing cactus into pie hole does not meet the minimum standard of challenge.

[pocaracas]

No..it isn't.  The invasion of ukraine is entirely elective, and no one owns that decision other than whomever signed the order.

Honestly, I can't understand why this even has to be argued into fact.  Bananapants.

as is the effort to expand NATO to russian border.   the only difference is America elected to push for this knowing the odds are most of the consequences will be borne by Ukraine if the predicted consequences eventuates.  

you can’t understand because you are willfully blind to views that does not fit your ideological conviction

I don't think it's reasonable to think that any one given country is ever driven to invading another, regardless of ideology.
How can a country be forced to invade another?

I am willing to accept that the militaristic ideology that is rampant in Russia of "Russia vs West" has contributed to it, but, again... that is them that are thinking that they are being forced into an invasion. It's not NATO that is forcing it on them.

NATO expanded because countries joined - if they were pushed into joining by the US or not, I can't say - but I can see the interest in being part of a large military protective alliance for the countries that are close to the unstable and somewhat powerful Russian Federation.
NATO doesn't exist solely to be a power against Russia, it's to be a united protective power against any outside force, Russia included, India included, China included, Australia included, etc.

The question, for me, is: why would Russia feel threatened by NATO to the point of invading Ukraine in 2014 and again in 2022?
If NATO is designed to protect its members, why would Russia think that they would attack Moscow?
It's either paranoia from Russian officials, or something is amiss.
Even if we go by the desire to annex territory, what kind of ore or crop is Donbas rich in that the rest of Russia is poor?

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/worl...2022-02-25
""
Ukraine's breakaway territories in the Donbass region have abundant natural resources and, thus, make the area economically very feasible for the future.
Lithium fields in Ukraine are concentrated in Zaporizhzhia oblast (Kruta Balka area), Donetsk (Shevchenkivske field), and Kirovohrad (Polokhivske field, Dobra area).
...
Some estimates indicate that up to 20 per cent of the proven world reserves of titanium ores are situated in Ukraine.
""


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbas
""
The Donbas economy is dominated by heavy industry, such as coal mining and metallurgy. The region takes its name from an abbreviation of the term "Donets Coal Basin" (Ukrainian: Донецький вугільний басейн, Russian: Донецкий угольный бассейн), and while annual extraction of coal has decreased since the 1970s, the Donbas remains a significant producer. The Donbas represents one of the largest coal reserves in Ukraine, with estimated reserves of 60 billion tonnes of coal.
...
Other industries in the Donetsk region include blast-furnace and steel-making equipment, railway freight-cars, metal-cutting machine-tools, tunneling machines, agricultural harvesters and ploughing systems, railway tracks, mining cars, electric locomotives, military vehicles, tractors and excavators. The region also produces consumer goods like household washing-machines, refrigerators, freezers, TV sets, leather footwear, and toilet soap. Over half its production is exported,[when?] and about 22% is exported to Russia.[97]
...
Shale gas reserves, part of the larger Dnieper–Donets basin,[99] are present in the Donbas, most notably the Yuzivska gas field.[100] In an effort to reduce Ukrainian dependence on Russian gas imports, the Ukrainian government reached an agreement with Royal Dutch Shell in 2012 to develop the Yuzivska field.[100] Shell was forced to freeze operations after the outbreak of war in the region in 2014, and officially withdrew from the project in June 2015.[101]
""


Of course, some other reason might be it... Russia wanted very much to annex Ukraine and the potential integration in NATO would render that operation impossible, so they decided to do it now? meh...
In the end, it is the invading force who decides to invade.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I can’t swallow the notion that a suspicion of a possibility of Ukraine’s admission into NATO is an existential threat to Russia. Nor am I buying into the nutty idea that an actual NATO admission of Ukraine constitutes that threat (though I happily admit that it is an existential threat to Russia’s policy of doing whatever the fuck it wants in Eastern Europe).

NATO is and always has been a defensive alliance. They don’t launch invasions, they don’t pressure countries into joining. All the jibber-jabber from Russia (and others) about ‘NATO imperialism’ is bollocks. And Putin’s soi disant justifications for the invasion amount to nothing more than ‘I thought he might hit me, so I hit him back first.’

Boru

[Fake Messiah]

duet in the trenches