Russia and Ukraine

[The Grand Nudger]

I doubt it's that..but, there is some range of positions on the issue of conflict in general in which any conflict is seen as unnecessary and in which the belligerents will always win by default - no shots fired. Where all money spent on any conflict is money wasted.

Not sure how it factors in here, as ukraine is actually buying weapons, and that creates a domestic contract for new stock...nor would russia quit the shit even if ukraine surrendered. I do, ofc, wonder if these same thoughts hold if the us wanted to annex some new territory. If we threatened to nuke new zealand unless we were given the uk...what's the score?

[Jehanne]

I don't know.  Why did Putin invade Ukraine?  Answer:  They (Ukraine) wanted to join NATO.

It doesn't matter how many times old vlad himself corrects that one, does it.  People continue to believe it.  Let's imagine a world in which it's even remotely true, though.  I guess that means russia gets to tell other countries whether they get to decide to join nato. IDK about you, but if russia was pulling a slow rolling invasion on me, I'd probably want in nato too.

If that happens someday, what's to prevent NATO from stationing nuclear weapons in Ukraine??  In the early 60s, President Kennedy threatened nuclear war over the Soviets trying to pull a similar trick in Cuba.  Do you think that Kennedy was merely joking?  Or, was he serious??

Do you think that putin was only joking, or serious, the many times he explained that he's engaged in a war of territorial ambition?

Do you think that it was right for President Kennedy to object to then Soviet Union staging nuclear missiles in Cuba? How would (should) the United States react if Putin would do the same next month?

[Deesse23]

I don't know.  Why did Putin invade Ukraine?  Answer:  They (Ukraine) wanted to join NATO.

Yes and: Poland has tonight for the first time fired with regular troops on our own territory. Fire is returned since 5:45

The truth is, and Putin has said it himself: Ukraine does not exist. It never did. Its an artificial construct. Ukraine and Ukrainians are a part of Russia and Putin will take them "Heim zurück ins Reich".

[The Grand Nudger]

It doesn't matter how many times old vlad himself corrects that one, does it.  People continue to believe it.  Let's imagine a world in which it's even remotely true, though.  I guess that means russia gets to tell other countries whether they get to decide to join nato.  IDK about you, but if russia was pulling a slow rolling invasion on me, I'd probably want in nato too.  

Do you think that putin was only joking, or serious, the many times he explained that he's engaged in a war of territorial ambition?

Do you think that it was right for President Kennedy to object to then Soviet Union staging nuclear missiles in Cuba?  How would (should) the United States react if Putin would do the same next month?

I think alot of the cold war was nuts...but since no one was threatening russia with any nukes.......and since vlad invaded because he wants the land....

[Jehanne]

As I posted already, I have been following this entity:

https://www.understandingwar.org/

You are following this, and your conclusion is exactly the opposite of what your site suggests? You truly lost me too now.
My point stands: For whatever reason you WANT Russia to (seemingly) win in the long run, you WANT it to be a threat, a threat that everyone else needs to bow to.
But why? Why and how does that serve your needs, whatever they are?

I want a war that should have never been fought to end as quickly as possible. Maybe because I worked in Statistical Process Control for 10 years and have formal training as a probabilist that I see the World differently than most, and through that lens, our World is closer to a global thermonuclear war than it has been in decades.

Simply put the war in Ukraine needs to end, the sooner, the better. Either Russia gets their military in gear and the West stops supplying weapons and intelligence, or the Ukrainians make a decisive and overwhelming move on the battfield that quickly drives the Russian forces back and Putin falls from power.

If I had my choice, the latter scenario is infinitely preferable to the former, but, I am a pragmatist, not an idealist.

[Jehanne]

Do you think that it was right for President Kennedy to object to then Soviet Union staging nuclear missiles in Cuba?  How would (should) the United States react if Putin would do the same next month?

I think alot of the cold war was nuts...but since no one was threatening russia with any nukes.......and since vlad invaded because he wants the land....

Not true. The United States had nuclear weapons stationed at the time in Turkey.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds like it's all a hilarious mistake, then. Perhaps vlad should have invaded turkey instead of ukraine?

[The Architect Of Fate]

1. Ukraine can join any alliance it wants and NATO was no threat to Russia which isn't the same as the Soviets giving Cuba Nukes 

2. Russia isn't going to get the gear it needs nor does Ukraine need to win quickly. Russia is fucked and it's simply flailing.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I think alot of the cold war was nuts...but since no one was threatening russia with any nukes.......and since vlad invaded because he wants the land....

Not true.  The United States had nuclear weapons stationed at the time in Turkey.

Which isn't equal to Ukraine joining NATO

[Jehanne]

Not true.  The United States had nuclear weapons stationed at the time in Turkey.

Which isn't equal to Ukraine joining NATO

And, so, when Ukraine wins and joins NATO, no issues then with nuclear weapons being in Ukraine? Russia should just accept that??

How about if the United States should build ICBMs in Taiwan? Should China just accept that?