Russia and Ukraine

[The Architect Of Fate]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/01/world...ozart.html

Good, PMOs should be outlawed internationally.

Yup considering their terrible track record they should be banned

[Jackalope]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/01/world...ozart.html

Good, PMOs should be outlawed internationally.

Yep. Fuck mercenaries and those that hire them.

[Leonardo17]

Warning: It’s all over the place. It’s all over the world. Some people have learned to use the internet (which started in the 90’s as a ways of communicating all sorts of information, all of the time, to all parts of the world, without any limitation) as a way of promoting their own interest based or twisted political agendas. And that’s what Russia is trying to do everywhere in the world.  

But I still think that this is only as powerful as their military equipment dating from the 80’s: I will only work on weak opponents.

But still: caution, caution, caution

The propaganda is working on you. 

Here's an old joke:

American man: Why did you come to study in the US?

Chinese man: Because I wanted to learn about the most effective propaganda.

American man: But we don't have propaganda here.

Chinese man: Exactly.

I’m not saying this isn’t true. That’s what Noam Chomsky is talking about in his books.
 
But Russian propaganda is direct, old-style Kremlin-designed and even Kremlin-believed alternate reality.
 
So you are afraid from the shadow of the devil. Because of this you go and hug the ankle of the devil. That’s what you are doing right now. (Or at least that’s how I see it)

[Leonardo17]

It was a plot on Hillary.

This has been debunked. Why don't you know this?

 this guy Mc-Donalds food loving guy who was mentioned in Nostradamus’s prophecies as "La Trompette" 

You can't be serious.

1) Yes. During his term, because he was afraid of being poisoned, Donald Trump regularly ate McDonalds food because it was the safest. I remember hearing that on CNN.
2) The line “The great shameless, audacious bawler... will be elected governor of the army” is seen to refer to Trump, the US commander in chief. And, he says, “la fausse trompette” will spark the destruction of Israel.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/...w-sees-war
Yes. This was also meant as a joke. As in Trump – French: La Trompette (La Trompette in French means “The Joker” or “a very funny person”)
/ I meant that I see Both Hillary Clinton and her Husband (despite his famous scandal that shook the world back in the days) as a more serious alternative to Donald Trump because they have this culture of politics in their family and I think both of them are quite respectable people too

[Leonardo17]

The Mozart Group, one of the most prominent, private American military organizations in Ukraine, has collapsed under a cloud of accusations ranging from financial improprieties to alcohol-addled misjudgments. Its struggles provide a revealing window into the world of foreign volunteer groups that have flocked to Ukraine with noble intentions only to be tripped up by the stresses of managing a complicated enterprise in a war zone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/01/world...ozart.html

I don’t know if you can compare that to Wagner. And we know about this. There are many foreign volunteer joining the Ukrainians Since on year now. + It is not a hidden fact that many Western nation are training and assisting the Ukrainians since 2015. How could you expect the Ukrainians to resist a Russian invasions if they hadn’t been assisted from western military experts since a few year before the beginning of the hot conflict?

[Leonardo17]

Because Russia's-hired killers are doing so well.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russias-wa...in-ukraine

https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/is...ke-bakhmut

https://www.townoflaronge.ca/the-russian...n-ukraine/

And unfortunately this is nothing but wishful thinking. After the war, If Russia collapses like Nazi Germany, I think they will keep existing as a shadow army and like Mossad did to the SS in the 50’s and 60’s, secret services will probably have to hunt them downs in the decades to come.
 
They are a Mafia state now. And the fact is, I’m sad to them still using soviet symbols etc. Because the Soviet Union (despite all its flows) really meant something (at least to some people). These are all mafia structures. So again: Big big errors that were committed in the 90’s. I think we must learn from that too.

[Belacqua]

1) Yes. During his term, because he was afraid of being poisoned, Donald Trump regularly ate McDonalds food because it was the safest. I remember hearing that on CNN.

Yeah, that part's uncontroversial.

2) The line “The great shameless, audacious bawler... will be elected governor of the army” is seen to refer to Trump, the US commander in chief. And, he says, “la fausse trompette” will spark the destruction of Israel.
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/...w-sees-war

Yes. This was also meant as a joke. As in Trump – French: La Trompette (La Trompette in French means “The Joker” or “a very funny person”) 

The French verb tromper means to trick or fool. As in trompe l'oeil, a flat picture that appears to have depth. I'm glad you referred to Nostradamus as a joke.

/ I meant that I see Both Hillary Clinton and her Husband (despite his famous scandal that shook the world back in the days) as a more serious alternative to Donald Trump because they have this culture of politics in their family and I think both of them are quite respectable people too

They are not respectable people. It's true that compared to Trump they are more presentable in public.

It's impossible to say how things would have gone if Hillary had campaigned properly and won the election. Given her record as senator and Secretary of State, it might well have been more war-like than Trump's time.

[arewethereyet]

Reminder - This thread is about Russia and Ukraine. It's not about Hillary or Trump's fetish for McDonald's food.

Let's get back on topic.

[The Grand Nudger]

That literally is what the war in ukraine is about to the afflicted. That's about the only consistent messaging the reich wing has been pumping out of late. All the rest has had to be abandoned as every new day brings a direct and even more damning rebuke of the various nutball claims that nuts have organized their worldviews around - but no more. It's just too much. They'll have to go to the mat for vlad, it's their alamo...and..with a herculean lack of self awareness, all the while loudly protesting that they are or would ever do any such thing.

It's a sad state of affairs when our nuts are an existential threat to ukraine - it would just be funny if it weren't for that.

[Belacqua]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that:

Some Ukrainian soldiers are starting to question why they are being asked to fight for Bakhmut when the city is nearly surrounded and a retreat, at some point, appears inevitable.

One special forces soldier who recently fought in Bakhmut said the Ukrainians are taking heavy casualties, including some of there best and most experienced soldiers; morale is taking a hit as a result.

"The city is almost surrounded. It's incredibly hard to protect. Casualties are huge. What's the point?" he said. "For all the soldiers who are holding these positions -- at least the ones I spoke to -- all of them say we have to withdraw. No one understands what so many troops are dying for."

(I'm assuming the Wall Street Journal will be acceptable to Leonardo, as it isn't social media.)

The reporting here seems like a change to me, as earlier reports tended to downplay Ukrainian losses and mention only Russian casualties. Earlier on I don't think they would have quoted discouraged Ukrainians.

I suppose the purpose is to motivate the US to hurry up and provide more weapons. The promised tanks are still many months away; the US tanks likely won't arrive until next year, if at all. The Germans are saying that the tanks they have promised to give ceased manufacture in 1984, and they are having trouble finding enough ammunition.

At the same time, realistic reports about how Ukraine is in bad shape, and the Russians continue to advance, may be preparing public opinion for a negotiated settlement. Until recently we were told that the Russians have no more weapons, that the remaining soldiers are elderly quadriplegics, that they only shoot each other, etc. Now that this fiction can no longer be maintained it may allow some realism to creep in to mainstream media.