Proxy war in Ukraine?

[The Grand Nudger]

I think the casualty numbers and economic damage might suggest who got things wrong at present. Now, personally, I like to believe that there's something more, even if it's just a useful artifact. If this is all there is or should be, though, then russia, it seems, has nothing left to do but pound sand...and it;s all over but the crying.

[The Architect Of Fate]

yes, it applied to everyone. it is merely a question of whose vanity presumes too much from the balance of power.

Sovereignty overrides any delusions of power balance.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Iran is doing this to gain leverage, through a relatively weak form of blackmail, to bring the US back to the nuclear accord which the US unilaterally withdrew from, in order to remove the sanctions that the US unilaterally reimposed under trump.    the blackmail is weak because iranian aid is unlikely to decisively influence  the progress of the campaign over winter or  tip the outcome of the war,  and Iran does not have the means to escalate her intervention to affect the desires outcome if her initial blackmail fails. 

Yet all the same, it damages the Iranian ability to drag the US back into the JCPOA. If that's their aim, it strikes me as poorly conceived. Why would the Americans go easy in a discussion about nuclear arms when Iran is busy opposing a main aim of American foreign policy -- no matter the result of Iranian support for Russia?

I agree with you that this is not Iranian proxy-warring. I think it's more a matter of leveraging Irani-Russo relations to gain non-Western access to nuclear materials or technology. "Hey, we helped you out, cut a brotha some slack".

The Iranian proxy war, in my opinion, has been and remains in Yemen. That's obviously a proxy-war against Saudi Arabia rather than the US directly, although our hands are plenty dirty there. The Iranians are clearly worried about SA and other Arab states stifling its own aims and in Yemen are seeking to distract the Arabian coalition from addressing what the Arab states see as the Iranian Problem™ by putting a stone in the heel of the Arabian boot.

[Irreligious Atheist]

In the news today is Iran's acknowledgment that they supplied drones to Russia.  Iran claims it was a limited number before the start of the war.  Ukraine disputes that the number is or was small.  Yet on the other side, Russia is accusing the west of fighting a proxy war by supplying Ukraine with weapons.

Is Iran supplying Russia with weapons any different from the U.S. and Europe supplying weapons to Ukraine?

Sure, Iran is doing what the US is.

Personally I don't follow why people are rejecting the term proxy for this war in Ukraine. It's never really been explained why it's not a proxy war. Maybe they just haven't looked up the actual definition of the word and it is just a matter of accidental ignorance? Proxy means a person authorized to act for another, which is one of the dictionary definitions.

Joe Biden has literally said Putin can not remain in power. His handlers took that back, but clearly this is America/ The NATO's war on Russia, as the war would have been long over if not for their interference and funding. Just like when the US supplied weapons to extremists in Syria, when the US was aware most of those weapons were being handed over to ISIS, Al Qaeda, and their allies. In that case, the US was fighting a proxy war with Syria, and the Islamic jihadists were America's proxy force/ honourary ground troops.

[Jehanne]

@Irreligious Atheist

Turn the page -- how do you think that things will turn out?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Sure, Iran is doing what the US is.

Personally I don't follow why people are rejecting the term proxy for this war in Ukraine. It's never really been explained why it's not a proxy war. Maybe they just haven't looked up the actual definition of the word and it is just a matter of accidental ignorance? Proxy means a person authorized to act for another, which is one of the dictionary definitions.

Joe Biden has literally said Putin can not remain in power. His handlers took that back, but clearly this is America/ The UN's war on Russia, as the war would have been long over if not for their interference and funding. Just like when the US supplied weapons to extremists in Syria, when the US was aware most of those weapons were being handed over to ISIS, Al Qaeda, and their allies. In that case, the US was fighting a proxy war with Syria, and the Islamic jihadists were America's proxy force/ honourary ground troops.

Because it's not a proxy war it's a war between Ukraine and Russia the US and its allies are simply supplying weapons and lots have people have said Putin can't stay in power Ukraine included. Hell, even members of Russia's own establishment have said this so Biden repeating that is proof of nothing.

Also, Syria wasn't a proxy war either it was a civil war on par with the Spanish civil war.

[Irreligious Atheist]

@Irreligious Atheist

Turn the page -- how do you think that things will turn out?

A lot of people dead, and I'm not willing to predict a Ukrainian victory like many are here.

[Irreligious Atheist]

Sure, Iran is doing what the US is.

Personally I don't follow why people are rejecting the term proxy for this war in Ukraine. It's never really been explained why it's not a proxy war. Maybe they just haven't looked up the actual definition of the word and it is just a matter of accidental ignorance? Proxy means a person authorized to act for another, which is one of the dictionary definitions.

Joe Biden has literally said Putin can not remain in power. His handlers took that back, but clearly this is America/ The UN's war on Russia, as the war would have been long over if not for their interference and funding. Just like when the US supplied weapons to extremists in Syria, when the US was aware most of those weapons were being handed over to ISIS, Al Qaeda, and their allies. In that case, the US was fighting a proxy war with Syria, and the Islamic jihadists were America's proxy force/ honourary ground troops.

Because it's not a proxy war it's a war between Ukraine and Russia the US and its allies are simply supplying weapons and lots have people have said Putin can't stay in power Ukraine included. Hell even members of Russia's own establishment have said this so Biden repeating that is proof of nothing.

Define proxy war for me then, and give me an example of one.

[The Architect Of Fate]

A lot of people dead, and I'm not willing to predict a Ukrainian victory like many are here.

So you simply deny all the evidence 

[The Architect Of Fate]

Define proxy war for me then, and give me an example of one.

How about no 

And I simply point out the fact that supplying another country with weapons to defend itself isn't it. This is a war between Ukraine and Russia with the US simply supporting Ukraine because they asked for help. And frankly, I find all this talk of proxy wars infantilizing and condescending to Ukraine. It treats it not like a nation with its own interests to defend or reasons to fight. But as a mere puppet for someone else's interests. It's essentially western chauvinism in reverse.