Mass shooting in the middle school Vladislav Ribnikar in Belgrade

[Silver]

Easy solution: no guns for the general public.

[Angrboda]

[The Grand Nudger]

There are entirely too many words here if your intended audience is FlatAss.  j/s

As for crazy people not being allowed to have guns...I see a couple issues.  One is, what sort of crazy shouldn't have a gun?  The other issue being that a person cleared today of not being crazy may well be crazy tomorrow, or in a week, or in a couple years.  That's a tough one to plan for.

State by state additional laws vary, but federally, if you've been involuntarily committed to an institution or deemed mentally incompetent by a court, you'll have to go through a whole thing to be able to purchase firearms or ammo legally again.  Anyone who sells you a weapon or ammo knowing of this or..in the specific language of the statute, having reasonable cause to believe, would also be committing a crime.  

No one plans to be unwell.  The only issue with this law, is how weak it is and how haphazardly we enforce it.  There's a similar thing going on with domestic violence and shooters.  Even when they live in states that mandate confiscations for offenders, the cops have a really strange tendency to let them keep their guns for a whole bunch of reasons I don't think that even -they- think hold water.  Frankly, there's a similar thing going on with all of our gun laws. Most of the time in these debates people are "debating" whether or not we should decide to do a thing we're already doing. Whether we could pass a law we've already passed. What answers we have for allegedly novel situations that have been occurring and been dealt with for centuries just in this country. Rest assured, though, that no matter how it all falls playing along to the point of crafting legislation, we won't enforce whatever we decide on. Drives me nuts.

So, anywho...just like a domestic terrorist, the domestic abuser often ends up..basically, practicing until they finally do kill that hostage.

[The Grand Nudger]

Goddamnit, I want a $50M F-35 too ... that's like a 50% discount.

Whoever is buying up us reps at a given time probably gets them even cheaper.  The price tag is how much they charge us to build their equipment.

- ish

[arewethereyet]

There are entirely too many words here if your intended audience is FlatAss.  j/s

As for crazy people not being allowed to have guns...I see a couple issues.  One is, what sort of crazy shouldn't have a gun?  The other issue being that a person cleared today of not being crazy may well be crazy tomorrow, or in a week, or in a couple years.  That's a tough one to plan for.

State by state additional laws vary, but federally, if you've been involuntarily committed to an institution or deemed mentally incompetent by a court, you'll have to go through a whole thing to be able to purchase firearms or ammo legally again.  Anyone who sells you a weapon or ammo knowing of this or..in the specific language of the statute, having reasonable cause to believe, would also be committing a crime.  

No one plans to be unwell.  The only issue with this law, is how weak it is and how haphazardly we enforce it.  There's a similar thing going on with domestic violence and shooters.  Even when they live in states that mandate confiscations for offenders, the cops have a really strange tendency to let them keep their guns for a whole bunch of reasons I don't think that even -they- think hold water.  Frankly, there's a similar thing going on with all of our gun laws.  Most of the time in these debates people are "debating" whether or not we should decide to do a thing we're already doing.  Whether we could pass a law we've already passed.  What answers we have for allegedly novel situations that have been occurring and been dealt with for centuries just in this country.  Rest assured, though, that no matter how it all falls playing along to the point of crafting legislation, we won't enforce whatever we decide on.  Drives me nuts.

So, anywho...just like a domestic terrorist, the domestic abuser often ends up..basically, practicing until they finally do kill that hostage.

Domestic abuse and murder hits home for me.  Scary as hell.  As kids, we could easily have been the victim of domestic abuse via gun.  Back then, it seems that even the most hot-headed domestic abusers knew that killing was a step too far.  They could get away with a lot since people didn't meddle in the affairs of families but killing would have been harder to ignore.

My younger daughter's best friend was killed by her husband (via gun) and he then turned the gun on himself.  This was a guy who was know for being a calm, meek guy...till he wasn't.  Left five kids without at least one parent...a couple of them orphans.  The youngest was in the house eating cereal and watching cartoons while this happened in the other room.  She was about 3 years old at the time.

That's what I mean by you can be A-OK today and not okay mentally tomorrow.

I just don't know if we can do much legally other than to take the guns away from those who have proven to be violent or have made threats.  This is as far as 'crazy' goes.  Domestic abuse often doesn't end up in a legal charge for one reason or another.

[FlatAssembler]

As for your 1, absolutely and ofc. Even in the swampiest parts of the magaverse, it's already illegal for crazy to have a gun. That's not even a gun control issue with respect to passing new or more stringent laws, it's a current law enforcement issue. Do you have any idea the number of people who commit gun crimes every year that by the laws in their own area at that time (to say nothing of actual competence) do not actually possess any legal firearms? Are you aware that, from the leo perspective, it;s mostly an issue of lacking some place to store confiscated weapons and worrying that a wingnut will win an extralegal or civil challenge to their confiscation? Insane...right?

Making it illegal for people with a diagnosed mental illness to own a gun accomplishes, as far as I can see, two things:
1. It takes the most effective means of self-defense from people who are significantly more likely to be victims of violent crime.
2. It makes gun owners afraid of seeking psychiatric help.

[FlatAssembler]

Easy solution: no guns for the general public.

Criminals already have guns. Why not make them available to the law-abiding citizens so that they can defend themselves from the criminals?

[The Grand Nudger]

As for your 1, absolutely and ofc.  Even in the swampiest parts of the magaverse, it's already illegal for crazy to have a gun. That's not even a gun control issue with respect to passing new or more stringent laws, it's a current law enforcement issue. Do you have any idea the number of people who commit gun crimes every year that by the laws in their own area at that time (to say nothing of actual competence) do not actually possess any legal firearms? Are you aware that, from the leo perspective, it;s mostly an issue of lacking some place to store confiscated weapons and worrying that a wingnut will win an extralegal or civil challenge to their confiscation? Insane...right?

Making it illegal for people with a diagnosed mental illness to own a gun accomplishes, as far as I can see, two things:
1. It takes the most effective means of self-defense from people who are significantly more likely to be victims of violent crime.
2. It makes gun owners afraid of seeking psychiatric help.

As I already said, you want to have a wingnut argument using wingnut stats.  Here we are discussing it as though it were a gun control proposal.  It isn't.  No one cares what you think it would accomplish, and it's already illegal for crazy to own a gun in the us for blisteringly obvious reasons.  

Meanwhile.  Gun owners who need psychiatric care and aren't receiving it are exactly the kind of people who need to be separated from their firearms for their own safety and those around them.  If they were responsible gun owners, as we constantly hear they are, there wouldn't even be a need to confiscate. They'll have stored their guns at a range or with a family member, or some family member will have done that for them. Frankly, deferring needed psychiatric care in favor of your hot pink 9 is exactly how you get involuntarily committed and then legally barred from possession. Going and getting the care voluntarily is how you stay off that shitlist.

Take a minute and truly hear yourself with this shit? "I'm worried they won't let me keep my guns if they find out I'm nuts" is not an argument against our federal law that says crazy cant own a gun, and no one can give crazy a gun. You're either completely unserious, or exactly the kind of person who shouldn't be allowed near a gun yourself. Hell, embrace the power of and, I guess.

Case in point, that bullshit directly above. Guns are already available to law abiding citizens, but no crazy person with a gun, or giving crazy a gun, is actually law abiding...so...? This is wingnut tourettes, at best. Tell you what though, best way to figure out how stupid this is isn't by trying to win doomed arguments here at af. Go find an american cop and ask them whether or not they want audience participation in their jobs. Maybe check how many times the cop shoots the good guy with a gun? Suspect matching your description shoots 14 people in a mall with a 9. What do you do?

A. Pull out your 9.
B. Literally anything else.

[FlatAssembler]

No one cares what you think it would accomplish, and it's already illegal for crazy to own a gun in the us for blisteringly obvious reasons.

What is that "blisteringly obvious reason"? The only reason I can see is the common but mistaken belief that having a diagnosed mental illness is a good predictor of being a mass shooter (when it is not, only around 20% of mass shooters have a diagnosed mental illness).

[The Grand Nudger]

Because six out of ten gun deaths in the us are suicides, loon. A big chunk of the remaining four comes down to known abusers with guns.

I see you're still fucking that chicken. We call domestic terrorists crazed lone gunman because we don't want to acknowledge what they are, not because we deem them mentally defective or incompetent. What you're describing isn't a common belief, it's a common lie.